1873 Grade I Range Report

[Steve S.]

     50 quick rounds at 50 yards, bench, elbows (forgot my bag), heavy cross wind (guessing 15 to 20 mph) - 250 gr. lead FN, 8 gr. Unique, WW primer and brass. Function was very smooth and flawless, 12" low first 5 rounds, couple clicks elevation (windage was right on) on the Marbles tang, still 4" low, couple more clicks was right there. Last 25 rounds measured a 4" group, very concentric and evenly distributed - no wind and a bag s/b a solid 2" group shooter (I would guess). The rifle is simply a joy to shoot - lots of fun - very well made, tight but slick action. Question for those who know: bump the Unique to 8.5 gr. (I do not want to go hotter) would flatten the 50 yard trajectory a bit, would accuracy "tend" to improve a bit also (in your experience)? Thanks.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 Congrats on your new rifle and good shooting!

In my experience with the 45 Colt and other revolver cartridges, accuracy usually does improve slightly as charges increase, within reason of course. I believe this is due to better bullet obturation. 8.0 grs. of Unique is a fairly light load with 8.5 sort of considered a "standard" load. Alliant goes all the way up to 9.5 grs., but that's probably not necessary unless you intend to hunt with the rifle.

Keep the reports coming!
CHT

[OD#3]

My hotter .45 Colt loads have usually been my most accurate.  This isn't the case with other rounds, but it seems to be borne out with .45 Colt and me.  Long ago, I had a Rossi model 92 that loved a steady diet of 255 gr. SWC over a maximum charge of AA#5.  It was a real tackdriver with that load.  I was a very young man then and only paid attention to the maximum charges in reloading manuals.  You know how it is with youngsters and power.  I wasted a lot of powder back then, but when it came to the .45 Colt and that Rossi rifle, hotter charges actually were best.

As for your Miroku, I, too installed a Marbles tang sight.  Maxed out, I was unable to find the bull at 200 yards, even with a compressed 40 grain FFF charge of BP (a load that usually delivers higher velocity than any standard pressure smokeless .45 Colt load).  I could tell it was hitting very low, but "Kentucky elevation" of that magnitude is difficult with a tang.  At 50 yards, it is dialed in, and I'm able to compensate easily at 100.  And that is probably really all the rifle is good for anyway.  But I was frustrated that the tang sight wouldn't elevate enough to lob the rounds in at 200.  Powder position makes such a deviation in round-to-round velocities with Unique, that I doubt that you would flatten your trajectory much--at least not consistently-- moving from 8 grains Unique to 8.5. 


This is a video I made over 3 years ago.    The first part has some BP loads in a SAA, but I later chronographed Unique loads out of the SAA.  There was a pretty big velocity spread when I did so, but if you fast-forward to 6:12, you'll see the beginning of my position sensitivity test with Unique--255 gr LFP over 8.5 grains Unique.  WAY big difference between powder forward and powder backwards. 

[Steve S.]

     OD#3, do you recommend a "filler" with Unique (for consistent case position)? Thanks.

[Coffinmaker]

Steve S.
Filler is NOT a good idea with Smokeless Powder.

Coffinmaker

[OD#3]

Like Coffinmaker said, filler is not a good idea.  I have been experimenting a bit with Titegroup.  Its claim to fame is position insensitivity.  While tests with extreme powder forward vs. powder to the rear reveal that it is (like all powders) susceptible to position sensitivity, I have found that it is much less so than Unique.  When I'm not trying to position the powder in any particular way, and just shooting normally, I get much less round-to-round variation.  But to accomplish that feat, it is a relatively fast powder.  I have some "Ruger only" maximum loads that work well in my 4.75 inch Blackhawk when I'm looking for a consistent +1,000 f.p.s. loads out of it, but that is about the highest safe velocities one can get with Titegroup--and that is with a Ruger.  I have tried a few loads around 6 grains in my Colt SAA, and I've found it to be a consistent performer but at the lower end of the velocity range.

The odd thing about Unique is, despite its powder position sensitivity and fairly high velocity variation, it remains a very accurate powder in the .45 Colt.  I can't explain it, but my very best handgun groups were shot with 8.5 grains of Unique under a 255 grain pill out of a Colt New Service revolver.  I know that my velocity spread from shot to shot can be over 100 f.p.s. with that load, but I still get a ragged hole in the target.  According to your range report, you're getting good accuracy with Unique.  If you want higher and more consistent velocities, give 3f BP a try.  Compress 35 to 40 grains of BP in that case, and you'll get around 1,000 fps out of a 7.5 inch SAA and over 1200 out of most rifles.  And if you've annealed your case necks first, your action will remain as clean as if you were shooting .44-40.  And if you just want to stick to Unique, you may still want to try annealing the case necks.  I anneal all my .45 Colt brass, whether I'm loading smokeless or BP.  No sooty blowby on the case makes me very, and it keeps the action clean as well.

Thanks for the range report.  I look forward to hearing about your progress.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Coffinmaker is right on; no fillers. I wouldn't get all stirred up over extreme spreads. I used to load Unique in the .303 British, 12.0 grs. to be exact, and attained really fine accuracy at 100 yds. Like OD said, loads with relatively high e.s.'s can still be accurate. I usually jot down my e.s.'s when I record velocities and most of mine run in the 20's and 30's with Unique and the 45 Colt. In the past with any cartridge I've found that high e.s.'s can almost always be attributed to insufficient bullet crimp. The problem with many lead .45 caliber bullets, especially the traditional 45 Colt bullets, is there's no means by which to crimp them, as in a crimp groove. I personally favor Keith style SWC's as they have crimp grooves.

As far as long range shooting goes OD, I'd suggest you install a shorter front sight which will raise POI. I have an old '73 Winchester 38-40 and I sighted it in at 100 yds./ with the rear sight, then use the tang sight for 200. Sighted in at 100, it's only about 3" high at 50. I did this with my new Yellowboy and am now shooting all the way out to 300 with very respectable accuracy. Another facet to this type shooting is the quality of the bullet. You can get by with so-so bullets at 50 or even 100 yds., but when you start stretching to beyond 100, the bullets need to be really good.

CHT

[OD#3]

I hate to swap out that Miroku front sight, but it is either that, or get a taller tang stem.  I'm actually regretting the installation of the Marbles tang.  I did it on the cheap, which meant that I ultimately destroyed my rear sight in order to turn it into a slot filler.  It looks good, but that windage adjustment knob on the Marbles sight just feels very much in the way, and it wasn't long after the installation that I began thinking that it would have been a good idea to have left the barrel-mounted rear sight as it was, and just use a taller stem for the tang sight to make longer shots. 

Your range reports on that 1866 are inspiring.  It is satisfying to lob pistol caliber bullets that far; I used to do it all the time with--of all things--an old Rossi Puma in .45 Colt.  Too bad I traded that one off (you can probably guess to whom).  My 1873 just won't reach that far with the sights it now wears, and my steel-framed Henry has a bent barrel that I haven't gotten around to addressing.   The 1876 in .45-60 does great at 200-300, but it doesn't give the same satisfaction as lobbing something slower and smaller that far. 

As far as bullet selection, I agree; good bullets are important for long range.  Steve, I've been using the PRS big lube some just because I shoot a lot of BP and like to keep the fouling soft, but it isn't known for long range accuracy.  The original style .45 bullet (.454190) is a great long-range performer, but its nose is a little too sharp for comfort in a levergun.  I once "smushed" the noses some on a batch of reloads to widen the nose.  It worked great but was too much work. 

I found that the Keith bullets (the original .454424 or the .452424) are pretty good long range performers for me.  And Steve, they actually feed rather well in the Miroku 1873.  Mine, at least, has a well-beveled chamber mouth that accepts the sharp shoulder of a SWC with ease--not so in the Uberti I once owned.  The next time I load smokeless for my Miroku, I'll be using Keith SWC's.

[Steve S.]

     OD#3, I did not touch my rear sight on this rifle, I installed the Marbles tang and simply "look through" the buckhorn - as was said, a lowered front sight (I would guess a .2 ish or low .3 ish Marbles front or a taller rear pin or even both would get you to that 200 mark). My rear pin is probably close to max now, the pin hole contour just about matches the contour of the buckhorn so I have just about a clear view - buckhorn is lowered all the way down. I am good at this point because I am at my standard deer range - I need to have a confidence in this rifle/ load for hunting that shorter distance - after the first 50 rounds, I see deer at 50 to 75 is no problem. I too like to lob slow, heavy bullets at long ranges - I use my Shiloh Sharps .45-70 (36.5 gr. 3031, 405 lead FN) at much longer distances - they are slow but carry great momentum even past the 500 yard mark - I'm with you - great, great fun!

[Steve S.]

     Another update: went to range Sunday for a 100 shot stent at the bench - 8, 8.25 and 8.5 grain Unique loads under 250 grain LFP and WW brass and primers - the rifle definitely showed a preference for the 8.5 grain load at 50 yards - was 2" or less with the 8.5 grain load and about 4" with the other two loads. I think I will stop there as some of the primers were just beginning to show slight flattening with the hotter load. Over all, a very smooth action, lots if fun to shoot and will be a fun deer rifle in the woods as long as I didn't try to stretch the distance - glad I purchased the rifle.

[QueensHorseman]

Always nice to read range reports, especially with good results. 

Years ago I settled on 8.5 grains of Unique in my .44 WCF and .45 Colt loads and I rarely experiment anymore except for last year finally going black in the .44 WCF sometimes.  I keep a powder measure set up to throw the 8.5 charge, keep a good stock of Unique on hand, and I'm happy.  I'm sure there are newer powders that also give great (some may say better) results but I could be happy with Unique for all of my pistol caliber loads in .44 special (7.5 grains), .45 acp (6.3 grains), .44 WCF & .45 Colt.  It is also becoming a favourite for light, cast bullet practice loads in .45-70, 9.3x62, etc. 

Shoot safe, aim small.