NEW MEMBER NEED INFO

REDEYE50 · December 15, 2015, 08:48:13 AM

I belong to several other forums, but this is a first here. I have a (Bisley Model) 45 Colt, U.S.F.A.MFG.Co, Hartford, Ct. U.S.A.
serial # 647DT. I contacted Turnbel and they said USFA made the revolver and sent it to them. They disasemmbled it polished, blue and case hardend and put it back together. The revolver is in excellant condition. It has a 4 3/4" barrel. I do not believe it has ever been shot. Would like to know some info about it, date of manufactor, history and approximate Value. Thanks

Pangaea · December 16, 2015, 09:00:19 AM

Welcome to the forum. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say it is an Italian gun. I have one Uberti model and several USA models. All are desirable guns, but the all USA models are worth considerably more than the early guns. With some additional information on the pistol, either Yahoody or Gary G would be able to tell you more precisely when the gun was made and with what parts.

In any case, it is a nice pistol.

yahoody · December 16, 2015, 10:37:53 AM

Welcome to the forum! Nice revolver you have there. By the DT (Doug Turnbull) serial number it is likely a USA gun. I have a 6XXDT SAA that was made in 2006 which is a all USA gun made a few dozen prior to yours . In today's collector market, Bisley and Turnbull = $. Only thing to add to that would be a rare caliber. I would think your Bisley a VERY rare gun. By definition from Turnbull they would be USFA Armory blue and Turnbull's color cased. I've never seen or even heard of a USFA Turnbull Bisley. Gary can likely give you the details.

GaryG · December 16, 2015, 02:41:32 PM

That would be a US gun. The serial number tells us that. only US Bisleys had HR grips.

yahoody · December 16, 2015, 02:50:05 PM

Gary some place I saw Turnbull did 500 guns total for USFA. 250 with a DT prefix and 250 with a DT suffix. That sound right?

If so how many Bisleys do you think he did in that bunch?

GaryG · December 16, 2015, 07:00:37 PM

perhaps but I think that's to many. When we first started sending him guns, we did all thenumbering. Later, we would just send parts and he would do all the polishing, action work, numbering, etc. when we would just send parts, we would send the frame, BS & TG as one unit. That total would number about 150-170.

yahoody · December 16, 2015, 11:10:41 PM

Thanks Gary. Interesting stuff. Do I understand your comment correctly, that there are likely under 200 DT guns total?
Do you remember if the DT guns ran in numerical sequence? Or did they just get shipments of random numbered frames?

I have called Turnbulls' several times asking for the serial number info on DT serial numbered USFA guns to little avail. Knowing all too well that FFL holders have to keep that info in our bound books. PIA to look them up how ever unless you have them on the computer as well.

The Bisley's 647DT # is the highest I have seen with the DT suffix. And have seen SAA guns in the 43X DT and 59X DT Series. But haven't seen any of the DTXXX prefix guns.

Anyone else have DT numbered guns to share?

Pangaea · December 16, 2015, 11:18:44 PM

Mine is a 45 Colt, serial number 311DT, 5 1/2 inch/

yahoody · December 17, 2015, 12:36:11 AM

Quote from: Pangaea
Mine is a 45 Colt, serial number 311DT, 5 1/2 inch/

Thanks P!
Bisley or SAA?

Now we know some were numbered in the 3, 4, 5 and 6 hundred DT series anyway :-)

REDEYE50 · December 17, 2015, 05:59:21 AM

thanks for all the info. Can anyone put a value for insurance purpose.

Buckaroo Lou · December 17, 2015, 11:04:05 AM

Does anyone know with regard to the Turnbull guns which ones came first the DT prefix or suffix ones. In 2004 was the first time I ever saw Doug Turnbull advertise a special run of USFA single actions. They were called the "Cowboy Classic" which were done if I remember correctly what Turnbull called Carbona blue which I think is the same as Old Armory blue. It was a limited run but I cannot remember what the quantity was. I am not sure but it seems like the original quote for one was around $1200. Apparently they did not move as rapidly as they had hoped because they later ran a special and the price was dropped to $995. It was then that I decided to purchase one. I bought mine on June 29, 2004. It is serial number 063DT. I added the custom two piece Elk horn grips about six or seven years ago and I still have the originals. I have provided a photo of mine below.

I know he had another later run but it seems they had one piece wood grips instead of the black plastic and I think they were called the "Open Range" instead of the "Cowboy Classic". I also remember he made a later run of ones that had a bit of engraving on them and it seems these were done about the time USFA was deciding to close the doors. I always wanted one but never pulled the trigger on one and then they were gone and it was too late. I have provided a photo of one below

I also found a photo of the "Open Range" which is the bottom photo. These were done in 2009 an were priced around $1650.

yahoody · December 17, 2015, 01:23:36 PM

Some nice looking guns there Buckaroo!

"Now we know some Turnbull had some DT suffix serial numbered USFA guns numbered in the 000, 3xx, 4xx, 5xx and 6xx hundreds anyway"

I have yet to document a DT prefix gun. Lots of other prefixs used like the A/B/C/D series on the Rodeo and the LH for Longhunter versions.

Gary was there ever a DT prefix that you know of?

Turnbull "Open Range" guns? I believe those are actually USFA parts, final finished, numbered and trade marked as "Turnbull Manufacturing" with the 'Turnbull "BULL" logo on the guns as opposed to a "USFA Firearms" gun.

So technically (according to the BATF) the Open Range is not a USFA gun...but a 'Turnbull Manufacturing" gun just as the early Uberti parts guns finished by USPFA or USFA were technically not Uberti guns but actually USPFA or USFA by BATF definition.

Turnbull's/USFA's (best grade) Armory Blue/ Pre-War finish work on all of these...(top two are not my pictures)

By the added engraving (John Adams Sr?) pretty sure this one would be a DT suffix gun

Buckaroo Lou · December 17, 2015, 04:19:26 PM

yahoody,

I thought the Turnbull guns that have the Turnbull Manufacturing trade mark and the "bull in the circle" stamp on the frame were guns Turnbull made after the closing of USFA. The first "Open Range" guns were produced while USFA's were still in production, 2009. I thought I remembered seeing Open Range guns with the USFA barrel markings.

When I first saw the add for the Turnbull Cowboy Classic I thought it stated there would be only a limited run produced and there were not that many. It seems like only 100 because I was afraid if I waited too long I would miss out. I know there were more than 100 produced later because I have seen higher serial numbers such as 3XXDT.

With regard to the photos in my previous post the first photo is mine. The other two photos of the open range and the engraved revolver I got off the internet.

Also, I would still like to know if anyone knows which came first, the DT initialed prefixed numbers or the suffixed numbers.

yahoody · December 17, 2015, 04:43:56 PM

I have a few of the engraved cylinder versions from USFA that Turnbull sold like what is shown below. All marked USFA nothing about Turnbull on them.

Far as I know Turnbull "Bull" marked Open Ranges guns say this on the barrel:
Little long for my liking

Buckaroo Lou · December 17, 2015, 05:10:32 PM

yahoody,

Isn't the first photo above, the one with the engraved cylinder and the one piece ivory grips, a Turnbull "Open Range" revolver?

yahoody · December 17, 2015, 05:24:19 PM

Quote from: Buckaroo Lou
Isn't the first photo above, the one with the engraved cylinder and the one piece faux ivory grips, a Turnbull "Open Range" revolver?

Craig's gun. I remember him as a leather maker..
Amazingly well done photos I think.
Details on this 44 Special an be seen here:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/photos-area/75508-ivory-my-usfa-44spl.html

I do have several just like it in different calibers and all are USFA marked guns. It is John Adman Sr. engraving on the cylinder, Turnbull blue and case and in that case, preban Nutmeg elephant ivory.