Bad fitting caps on a 2nd gen Colt Dragoon

LonesomePigeon · July 01, 2015, 01:39:27 AM

I tried Remington #10, Remington #11 and CCI #11 and all fit so loose they would sometimes fall off if I simply pointed the gun upward.

This is on a Colt 2nd generation C-series 3rd Model Dragoon that I bought used. What would be the correct size replacement nipples? Would you recommend Treso, Slix Shots or Track of the Wolf?

I will probably try CCI #10 before replacing the nipples but I would still like to know the correct size nipples in case I do have to replace them.

Blackpowder Burn · July 01, 2015, 07:06:24 AM

I have Ruger Old Army's with Treso nipples. They work perfectly with Remington #10 caps.

According to literature, the Slix Shot are designed for CCI #11 caps. I don't have any of these, but have read a lot of good things.

The websites for the retailers (The Possible Shop, Track of the Wolf, etc.) will have information on which nipple modles to order to fit specific guns.

Fingers McGee · July 01, 2015, 12:07:52 PM

Quote from: LonesomePigeon on July 01, 2015, 01:39:27 AM
This is on a Colt 2nd generation C-series 3rd Model Dragoon that I bought used. What would be the correct size replacement nipples? Would you recommend Treso, Slix Shots or Track of the Wolf?

CCI 10s are the smallest caps available and might work just fine on the original nipples.

If you are going to change them out; I recommend Tresos and #10 Remingtons.

rickk · July 01, 2015, 02:31:12 PM

Treso nipples seem to fit the RWS caps nicely. I wound up changing nipples on everything I have to Treso so that I didn't have to have a Walmart sized storage area for a huge assortment of caps.... now one size fits all.

Pettifogger · July 01, 2015, 10:26:31 PM

If someone suggests "pinching" the caps run, do not walk, away and seek better advice elsewhere.

Lefty Dude · July 02, 2015, 12:42:52 AM

Quote from: Pettifogger on July 01, 2015, 10:26:31 PM
If someone suggests "pinching" the caps run, do not walk, away and seek better advice elsewhere.

Are you suggesting there just might be a "Chain Fire" !

Bruce W Sims · July 02, 2015, 08:11:17 AM

Knowing how my mind works, I was going to make a comment about pinching nipples
for a better outcome..... but this is a family show so.....

May I just make a comment here for a moment? There seems to be a lot of talk
about size of the caps and their fit on nipples. IMHE I have yet to run into
any problems. I have standard nipples and have used both CCI and Winchester #11
and have only noticed that the CCI seem to tend not to fragment as bad. However,
all this talk about caps falling off and what-not has not been a real issue. Are there
particular circumstances under which people are having problems such as competition, maybe?
Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Thumb Buster · July 02, 2015, 08:43:13 AM

I'm not a competition shooter mind you but the only time I have trouble with caps falling off nipples is the first couple of loadings then it seems the fouling helps to hold them on. Whatever input I make might not be of any worth on this topic. I snap six caps to clear the nipples and chambers; might not be what others do but normally they stay put after that. The biggest problem I have with caps is with the cappers, fragments getting lodged between the frame and cylinder and, of course, falling down into the works. As long as they stay put and the revolver goes 'BOOM' then I'm happy. Pinching them, I had learned as a kid, is a 'no-no'.

Fingers McGee · July 02, 2015, 11:50:57 AM

Quote from: Bruce W Sims on July 02, 2015, 08:11:17 AM
Are there particular circumstances under which people are having problems such as competition, maybe?

To be succinct - Yes

Coffinmaker · July 02, 2015, 06:41:19 PM

It absolutely must be kept in the forefront of your mind ........ Cap Guns can be Malevolent. They are Cantankerous. Some of them simply DO NOT like us and/or harbor Poltergeist. They are close relations of MURPHY!!

The OP is/was having problems with a 2d Gen Colt. That makes it a Uberti. It also sounds as if the nipples ave already been replaced by someone who doesn't know what he, or she, (Dragoon ?? Nah) was about. Unfortunately, there are only two choices. 1. Buy one can of every size nipples and keep the ones that fit. Give the others away. 2. Change out the offending nipples, buy one can of every size, and keep the ones that fit. Give the others away.
Because I run light Main Springs, I don't like TRESO. I like SlixShot. Work in everything I have. Everything I have is a Pietta. It is my understanding, at this time, OL #4 and company now offer Slix for the Dragoon/Walker. I'd strongly suggest trying those. With the Slix nipples in my Piettas, I run Remington # 10 caps. After shoving them on what a snail capper, I go back around and "seat" them with a push stick. This has resulted in 100% reliability. Because I don't run full propellant charges, the caps stay on the nipples, but since I shoot Gunfighter in completion and don't have a free hand, I run Cap Rakes as added insurance against sucking caps.

The Foregoing is a result of my experience attempting to make Cap Guns run. Remember, a Malevolent gun just may give you fits!!
There have been times I just wanted to melt the sucker down into a little PAPAER WEIGHT!!

COFFINMAKER

LonesomePigeon · July 03, 2015, 11:00:25 AM

Thanks for the replies. The chart was especially informative. This gun was purchased used and already fired so I don't know if the nipples have been replaced or altered. I haven't had this problem with any of my other cap guns. With the haz mat fee and CCI #10 caps being hard to find around here I will probably replace the nipples.

Don Kenna · July 06, 2015, 10:34:51 PM

Almost certainly, someone has already replaced the revolver's original nipples with some after-market type. I own two Colt 2nd Generation Third Model Dragoon revolvers. Both came to me with the original nipples which were too large to accept either Remington or CCI caps of any type. I recall reading somewhere, perhaps in Colt literature, that the original nipples (both on 1st and 2nd Generation Colt Dragoons) were intended for #12 caps. The only #12 caps I have ever seen were in museum displays. One of my Dragoons came to me unfired, while the other one seems to have been used by a reenactor who carried it in a holster, but likely never fired it. Obviously, I had to replace the nipples on both.

I first tried Treso nipples, having had pretty good luck with them on other revolvers. Those purchased for the Dragoon proved to be too short. Track of the Wolf (TOW) stocks two lengths of nipples specifically for Dragoon and Walker revolvers. The longer length TOW nipples worked perfectly. Remington #10 caps slid on so easily that I thought they might be a loose fit until, out of curiosity, I tried to remove an unfired cap. Once seated, the fit was so tight that neither a thumbnail nor a small brass chisel could remove the cap. A small needle-nose pliers was needed for that task.

I'd unreservedly recommend TOW nipples for your Dragoon revolver. While Remington caps offered the most perfect fit, CCI #11 caps seemed to work about as well. CCI #10 caps worked (sort of...), but tended to split when seated.

LonesomePigeon · July 08, 2015, 02:40:40 AM

Thanks Don. I was thinking the original nipples were either replaced or altered. Sounds like the TOW is the way to go.

Montana Slim · July 08, 2015, 04:47:19 PM

I also have a 2nd Generation Colt 3rd model.......the original nipples would not take any current-production cap.
However, I had a tin of Remington #11 caps on-hand which were too large to be used on any of my muzzleloaders back in the 1970's (when I purchased the caps). 40+ years later I had the dragoon and apparently no caps to fit...until I remembered the tin of old Remingtons. They fit perfectly on the Dragoon and all were used up. I discused with a Remington ammunition representative at a "defense" conference. We talked "BP stuff" and hHe told me the tin of caps I had was probably "old stock" (his words)....and that cap dimensions changed slightly by the early-mid 1970's....and could have been a mistake since tooling was changed. My caps had likely been sitting on a shelf for some time even by approx 1975, when I bought them for $1.99 (still has the sticker). These caps were advertised as waterproof, and had an impressive-looking, gold-colored foil seal over the priming compound. I can say all were sure-fire after sitting for over 40 years.

Here are the dimensions of my "old" Remington #11s: ID= .175, OD= .185, Length= .160.

Today, we pay more & get less for our money...water-resistance of new caps is practically nil, less materials and fewer components in a percussion cap when compared to a pistol primer, yet they cost more than twice as much.

Oh, well.......

Slim

Bishop Creek · July 21, 2015, 06:42:34 PM

Slix Shot does make nipples for Dragoons and Walkers. Here they are on my Uberti Walker:

LonesomePigeon · October 20, 2015, 12:41:58 AM

I thought I would update this thread in case anybody can use it in the future.

As of today I have tried Track of the Wolf 1/4-28 thread #RST-WI regular nipples for Walker/Dragoon and Track of the Wolf 1/4-28 thread #RST-WLS long nipples for Walker/Dragoon. On both of these the threads were so tight I was afraid to screw them in all the way so I didn't. They may have fit with a little force but I decided not to risk it. I'm not sure why they didn't fit because other people seem to have used them just fine on 2nd Gen Colt Dragoons.

I also tried Treso 1/4-28 thread #11-50-136 nipples for Italian Colt Walker. On these ones the threads fit perfectly. I used them today at the range with ok results. Remington #10 and RWS #11 are the caps I used and both fit well on the nipple and ignited every time. I did have several fired caps fall into the hammer slot but this was far better than what was happening before with the original nipples with the caps falling off just from cocking the gun. At least I was able to fire several cylinders and with care had no cap jams.