Spencer for CLA silhouette matches

[Alphawolf45]

   I shoot silhouette matches. Presently I am using a Rossi .357 magnum for Cowboy Lever Action silhouette matches.. Have to load the cartridges pretty stout to knock down the 50 lb steel rams at 200 yards....Just for fun I want another -more interesting- rifle to shoot that match.. Anybody here use a Spencer for silhouette out to 100 and 200 yards? What caliber? Bullet weight?

   I also shoot a couple matches where must use .22 LR ..Thinking seriously about building a Spencer in .22 LR for those matches.. Presently I am shooting a Marlin 1892 that I built from scratch..Copied an original 1892 that I inherited from grand dad...Shooting is secondary interest to the gunsmithing/metalsworking.

One last question. I seen pictures that show sporting style Spencer with staff peep sight mounted where top tang would be if it had one...Were those sights screwed directly to the wood or were those rifles provided with a top tang?

[Ibgreen]

The Spencer sporting rifles were primarily chambered in 56-46.  This was an early bottleneck cartridge. The crude tang sight had one top mount tapped into the receiver (where normally the serial number is found on military rifles.). The lower mount was screwed into the wrist.

Building a .22 version will be a lot of work and trial/error.  You would need to scale down everything to in order to properly provide correct feeding geometry. Perhaps machining sleeve cartridges that a single .22 round may be placed.  Theoretically a custom .22 barrel may be utilized with a modified off the shelf replacement block to offset the firing pin for the rimfire location.

[Blair]

Alfawolf45,

What is the weight of the bullet you are using in your .357 Mag.?

Instead of re inventing the wheel by developing a Spencer in .22 cal., you might try one of the new made Spencer's, or even the Rossi in .45 Colt. Just a thought?

However, the 56-50 Spencer with the basic 350 gr. bullet makes for one heck of a steel killer at 200 yards when you get it set up.
My best,
Blair

[Alphawolf45]

Building a .22 version will be a lot of work and trial/error.  You would need to scale down everything to in order to properly provide correct feeding geometry. Perhaps machining sleeve cartridges that a single .22 round may be placed.  Theoretically a custom .22 barrel may be utilized with a modified off the shelf replacement block to offset the firing pin for the rimfire location.
[/quote]

Ibgreen
  It is unfortunate that few if anybody- (unlike yourself)  who attends my matches will appreciate the amount of effort required to build a Spencer in .22 RF..I however have spent my entire life pushing tools and making things work when they fight back..I have a better than average machine shop just out my backdoor... I am sure I can manage it. My only concern is will I find enough time to complete the job. It don't bother me to remake a few parts along the way. I am quite familiar with trial and error ..Probably I will start by building a receiver split down the middle top to bottom so I can easily see what is hanging up and where it needs more or less metal..

[Alphawolf45]

Alfawolf45,

What is the weight of the bullet you are using in your .357 Mag.?

Instead of re inventing the wheel by developing a Spencer in .22 cal., you might try one of the new made Spencer's, or even the Rossi in .45 Colt. Just a thought?

However, the 56-50 Spencer with the basic 350 gr. bullet makes for one heck of a steel killer at 200 yards when you get it set up.
My best,
Blair

Blair
  For rams I use jacketed 180 grain bullets in the .357 ...I bought the Rossi because I didn't have time to build a Winchester 1892 before the matches began .As I said, I am machinist first and a shooter after that .I competed for a season of BPCR with my scratch built Highwall in .45-70...But my old eyes werent up to shooting iron sights out to 500 plus yards....I didn't care to pop for a $1400.00 scope and mounts so I switched to cowboy silhouette. I enjoy shooting offhand far more than shooting prone off crossed sticks.

         Yeah, bet a 350 grain bullet would work fine with rams at 200 yards...Have to decide if will use smokeless or black powder and then order appropriate barre.

[Blair]

Alfawolf45,

I guess I should have asked this before I replied, What is CLA silhouette?
My best,
Blair

[Alphawolf45]

Blair
CLA is Cowboy Lever Action.. It is an NRA sanctioned match. The silhouettes are "full sized" and set chickens at 50 yards, pigs at 100 yards, turkeys at 175 yards and rams at 200 yards..All fired offhand of course..The premise of the sport is that any fellow can bring his deer rifle as long as it is with a tubular mag fed rifle over .25 caliber can participate.. Lot of guys shoot .30-30 Marlins...I have a lot of Marlin 1893 parts that I could build up a rifle for that match except they have a rule that states that barrels must be original to that make of rifle either with original bore or can be relined...That leaves me out because I don't have an original marlin 24 inch octagon barrel and they don't allow me to install an aftermarket barrel.......I tried shooting a Marlin 336 carbine in .30-30 with round 20 inch barrel and I couldn't hit more'n half the targets..........But,but,but, if I build the entire rifle then I can install a Green Mountain or Shilen barrel on it and be within the rules...Hence my thinking I'd enjoy building/shooting a Spencer....I shoot well with the Rossi but rather use a gun that I built myself....

[Blair]

Alfawolf45,

My reason for asking is you said you shoot "Jacketed" 180 bullets in your .357 Mag. at 200 yards.
I don't think a jacketed bullet is approved within CAS/WAS at any range.
Of course, with all the changes, I could be mistaken now.
My best,
Blair

[Alphawolf45]

 While this thread is still active let me ask one or two more questions.. Anybody know of a .22 Spencer in current production or ever offered commercially? 

I just finished repairing my 60 ton cap. punch press and building a shearing die for it and find myself between urgent projects...I start gun projects by collecting all pictures of the parts that I can find online.. Then draw'em out in CAD and eventually cutout parts with cnc mill. Got to say I am anxious to start building a Spencer or maybe two.

    And I think that a double set trigger can easily be added to a shop built Spencer.. Were set triggers ever offered on original Spencers?

[Blair]

Alfawolf45,

First, I would suggest you go through Two Flints "SORI" section. Much has been saved within its pages that you may find useful.
Second, is to find yourself a copy of Roy Marcot's book on "Spencer Repeating Firearms".
Third would be to consider buying either an original or a reproduction Spencer in rifle or carbine.

Spencer did produce an apporximately half scale carbine type firearm that was intended to shoot either a .38 or .44 long rim fire sporting cartridge. These are very rear, and never really caught on well.
I know of no attempt to do anything as small as a .22 cal.

Single set triggers are known in some Spencer Sporting Rifles.
There are also some altered Military firearms to Sporting Rifles that incorporate double set triggers. But most of the require some sort of modification to the leaver to allow for room with the second trigger.

I wish you luck in your endeavor.
My best,
Blair

[Alphawolf45]

Blair
   It may well look best with a single set trigger and maintain the original lines of the lever.....As for buying a Spencer--- I suppose you mean I should do that rather than build my own?  No.. Anybody can buy a gun. I'm retired, enjoy the work, have a 4600 sq foot shop full of machinery including heat treat furnace and Rockwell Hardness tester.. I can build a good safe gun.. I have built quite a few rifles over the years..... And it's very satisfying to compete using rifle that I built every piece ,bolt, and spring...In one local match I shoot my homebuilt iron sighted Marlin 1892 against shooters using scoped Anchutz rifles and typically finish with better score than half or more of those guys.. I am not a great shot but they aren't putting me to shame with their high priced target rifles.....Uhmmmmm, the only pieces I don't make are coiled springs and I use rifled barrel blanks as I can buy better coil springs and barrel blanks than I can produce myself.
     I will take your suggestion and  read  through Two Flints "SORI" section .
Thanks for your reply.

[Blair]

Alfawolf45,

My suggestion to buy a Spencer, old or new, was based only on giving you the patterns for reducing the size and scale you would probably need for your CAD drawings to help you establish your NCN Machinery.
I am not at all unfamiliar with the proses involved.
I too am retired from being a Gunsmith, Machinist as well as a Blacksmith.
I would like to see you succeed in this endeavor, and thought these suggestions would help give you a strong starting point.
My best,
Blair