45-55 carbine loads

[hatman]

In March of this year I purchased an 1888 mfg trapdoor carbine. 
I decided I want to shoot only 45-55 carbine loads.
I was intending to purchase from Black Dawge, but tragically there was a horrible accident in May and it appears that Black Dawge has decided to go out of business.  Prayers for the Dean family.

Does anyone know of any manufacturers selling 45-55-405 cartridges?
I have a lot of 45-70 brass, but at this point in my life I am not prepared to load my own.

[john boy]

Buffalo Arms - but out of stock ...
http://www.buffaloarms.com/45_70_Government_Black_Powder_Ammunition%20_it-175420.aspx?CAT=4443

[Pettifogger]

It's difficult to buy any .45-70s loaded with BP.  To find carbine loads is even harder.  If you are going to shoot your original you need to buy the Wolf book on loading for the original rifles and plan on reloading.  You won't get satisfactory ammo over-the-counter and there are VERY few custom loaders that will load BP.

https://the4570book.com/

[Grapeshot]

I second pettifogger's advise. 

It's easier to do it yourself than track down factory made .45-55-405 Government cartridges for your trapdoor.  I had great success with a hollow based .458 slug cast from a mold I purchased in PA back in 1999 from RAPINE before he went out of business.

[hatman]

I second pettifogger's advise. 

It's easier to do it yourself than track down factory made .45-55-405 Government cartridges for your trapdoor.  I had great success with a hollow based .458 slug cast from a mold I purchased in PA back in 1999 from RAPINE before he went out of business.

Thanks Grapeshot (and pettifogger).

I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and do my own reloading for my carbine.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   I suggest that your first purchase be, "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield and Carbine" by J.S & Pat Wolfe; do this, wether you're set up to reload, or not. It will give you a lot of valuable information regarding what your Trapdoor Carbine needs to shoot great. If you decide to get into reloading, you will have all of the information that you need, and also what to expect from your custom-loader!

           Be Well!

                       M.T.Marfield

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Hatman,

Are you intending to use this carbine for SASS long distance?  Should be a likely contender for Plainsman too.

DD-MDA

[Trailrider]

If you elect to load your own with black powder, remember that you will have to use filler wads over the powder charge, compressed by the bullet. Never leave an air space over BP!  So far as biting the bullet is concerned, please don't do that. You could get lead poisoning!  Seriously, loading the .45-70 isn't difficult, and you could even do it with a Lyman 310 tool, though I would advise going with at least a single stage press, powder scale, powder thrower or powder measuring scoops.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   Seriously guys, if you want to know how to Duplicate the Accurate Cartridges manufactured by Government Contractors for the Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines, GET THE BOOK!
   I used this book's loading techniques to create Carbine and Rifle cartridges that perform! Also get LEE's 405 grain Hollow Base Bullet Mould that was created for Trapdoors; LEE used Government drawings to create this, and it's almost an exact copy of the original Government bullet. Follow the instructions, and you will not need wads or fillers. These BP loads are accurate, and burn clean.
   Times are tight, money wise, for us (I was laid-off last June 14th), but I cannot recommend this book more highly; it dispels ALL of the myths and legends about the Rifle/Carbine, and the Cartridge. It can be bought from Wolf's Western Traders; I don't have an email for them, but you should be able to google it.

          Be Well!

                      M.T.Marfield

[hatman]

Howdy Hatman,

Are you intending to use this carbine for SASS long distance?  Should be a likely contender for Plainsman too.

DD-MDA

Howdy Dick,
No plans right now for competition shooting nor reloading.
I just had to acquire one for my love of western plains history.
I'm not sure how well a shooter it will be anyway; I would only rate the bore as maybe 'good'.
I have yet to shoot it.  I plan to take it to a good gunsmith next week to get a professional seal of approval.
All I have at the moment are 45-70 smokeless (405gr cowboy loads) and a bunch of Buffalo Arms 405gr BP rounds.

[hatman]

   Greetings!

   Seriously guys, if you want to know how to Duplicate the Accurate Cartridges manufactured by Government Contractors for the Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines, GET THE BOOK!
   I used this book's loading techniques to create Carbine and Rifle cartridges that perform! Also get LEE's 405 grain Hollow Base Bullet Mould that was created for Trapdoors; LEE used Government drawings to create this, and it's almost an exact copy of the original Government bullet. Follow the instructions, and you will not need wads or fillers. These BP loads are accurate, and burn clean.
   Times are tight, money wise, for us (I was laid-off last June 14th), but I cannot recommend this book more highly; it dispels ALL of the myths and legends about the Rifle/Carbine, and the Cartridge. It can be bought from Wolf's Western Traders; I don't have an email for them, but you should be able to google it.

          Be Well!

                      M.T.Marfield

Thanks.  When I decide to make the plunge to reload I will definitely get the book.  I also want to hook up with someone at the range I just joined to mentor me through the reloading process.  I didn't just retire after 36 years to end up with a chunk of steel in my forehead.   

[Good Troy]

I realize this is a dated thread, but I wanted to share this information...
I purchased the book by Wolf, and it is very thorough, and useful!
I have an H&R Trapdoor Carbine that was giving me terrible accuracy with lighter (300 to 350 grain) hard cast bullets (~18 Br hardness)... about 6 inch groups at 50 yards!  I swapped to a hollow based, 405 grain, 20:1 cast bullets available from Buffalo Arms.   I loaded it over a compressed load of 3.7 CC (nominally 55 grains volume) 2F Goex.  I seated the bullet to the top of the powder, and tapper crimped.  Basically the 1886 carbine load as I understood it from the Wolf's publication.  This load cut my group size in half at 50 yds.   I've yet to try 100 yds, as I've had problems keeping a front sight on the barrel (long story), but I have a dovetailed sight now...so, I'll put it on paper at 100 yds soon as the 40 days and 40 nights of rain quit hear in Tejas...

[john boy]

The standard down load for the 405gr bullet in a 45-70 is 50gr of Fg powder.  The velocity is 1040fps.  As mentioned - you will need plenty filler or wads to fill the case to the base of the bullet.
The fps difference between a 70gr and 50gr is only 240fps and the felt recoil will be immaterial!  So why not use 70gr rounds with the 405 bullet because unless you or a friend down load the 45-70 - there are none for sale in the commercial market

BACO has 415 and 500gr BP ammunition in stock ... https://www.buffaloarms.com/Black_powder_cowboy_ammo_pr-4438.aspx?CAT=4438

[StrawHat]

The standard down load for the 405gr bullet in a 45-70 is 50gr of Fg powder.  The velocity is 1040fps.  As mentioned - you will need plenty filler or wads to fill the case to the base of the bullet.
The fps difference between a 70gr and 50gr is only 240fps and the felt recoil will be immaterial!  So why not use 70gr rounds with the 405 bullet because unless you or a friend down load the 45-70 - there are none for sale in the commercial market

BACO has 415 and 500gr BP ammunition in stock ... https://www.buffaloarms.com/Black_powder_cowboy_ammo_pr-4438.aspx?CAT=4438

johnboy and others,

Late to the party but you may find this interesting.

When the Arsenal started loading the reduced charge, a cardboard tube was inserted into the case to take up the room.  This caused the loaded cartridge to look just like the full 70 grain charged round so a "C" was incorporated into the headstamp.  Later, wads replaced the tube and the "C" remained in the headstamp.  In 1886, the wads were omitted and the bullet was loaded down into the case to be on top of the powder.  This allowed the cartridge to be visually different from the 70 grain charge and the "C" was omitted from the headstamp.  The shorter loading lasted until the end of production.

For a few months in 1898, the Arsenal also loaded smokelss powder in the 45-70.

Kevin

[Good Troy]

I've been using FFg Goex for carbine loads (both with a wad and standard OAL, and without a wad to shorter OAL).
I see in THE book by Mr. and Mrs. Wolf that is shows FFFg for this load.  What powder to y'all use?

[pony express]

I load 2f Goex-because I HAVE 2F Goex. Only 3f I have on hand is a part can of Elephant, keeping that in case I wanna shoot some CAS with my 1860 Armies.

[hatman]

An OP followup:

A couple months ago I finally shot a (almost) box of Buffalo Arms 405gr 45-70 BP rounds they were really accurate.  And no issue with recoil either.
After 16 or so rounds I started to get short primer strikes so I quit for the day and figured I'd take it to a gunsmith for a firing pin replacement, which I haven't done yet.

Before I get around to taking it to a gunsmith does anyone think there might be another solution?
Also, I found that the rifle was very picky from round to round from the same box as to successfully getting into the chamber and shutting the trapdoor.  A few just wouldn't seat.
Perhaps the chamber is still crudded up with BP residue, or?

I'm just a newbie duffer when it comes to BP guns, but I'm really enjoying this new hobby in retirement. 

[wildman1]

Clean the chamber real good, take the firing pin out and clean it, make sure there is no crud build up around it. Find one of the rounds that is hard to chamber coat it with your favorite color of magic marker. Stick it in the chamber firmly. Then take it out and look for rub marks on the case or bullet. wM1

[hatman]

Clean the chamber real good, take the firing pin out and clean it, make sure there is no crud build up around it. Find one of the rounds that is hard to chamber coat it with your favorite color of magic marker. Stick it in the chamber firmly. Then take it out and look for rub marks on the case or bullet. wM1

Thanks wildman.  I'll try your ideas.

[wildman1]

Its a good place to start. Costs nothing and may solve the problem. wM1