Tite Group with 200 gr SWC's

[PJ Hardtack]

What velocity can I expect with 4.5 grs of Tite Group using hard cast 200 gr LSWC's in new Star-line brass?

[1961MJS]

Hi

FOR .45 ACP loads, I was told to use 4 grains of Bullseye which is pretty close to Tite Group, for both 185 and 200 grain SWC, again in .45 ACP.  I'm sure you'll get help otherwise for .45 Long Colt, and you're probably shooting in a revolver so you can use a slightly hotter load.

Just my $0.02 and worth bout half that.   

[Blair]

Suggestion,
Don't count on what people have told you.
Try reading booklets like this. These are available in just about every cartridge caliber you can imagine.
Sponsored and published by the support of the makers/manufactures of the products contained within.
My best,
Blair

[PJ Hardtack]

oops .... my bad .... I neglected to add that I'm referring to .45 ACP, not .45 Colt. If you want the right information, you gotta ask the right question.

.45 200 SWC's don't work in most .45 Colt cylinders as they are too long in the snout. Ask me how I know .....

If I was using Tite Group in .45 Colt, I'd likely use 6 grs of it under a 250 gr bullet.

[treebeard]

Another great resource is loaddata.com--A vast amount of load information for a small cost considering
The cost of a blown firearm.  Remember no person, website or hard manual is infallible.

[Will Lynchem]

Try checking out the IMR load data web site. It will give you all the velocities and other data you need. From what I just looked at for Hodgdon Tightgroup, for 45 ACP  200 gn SWC you should be between 4.8 and 5.4 gns. For 45 Colt, 200 gn RNFP you should be between 6.5 and 7.7 gns.
These are factory tested specs from the manufacturer.  The velocities are for 45 Colt  933 fps to 1050 fps and the 45 ACP is 877 fps to 957 fps.
hope this helps, W. L.

[PJ Hardtack]

I need a minimum of 850 fps. Some of the variables that determine velocity are:

- barrel length and condition
- lead or FMJ bullets (lead generates higher pressures with the same charge)
- age of brass (number of times reloaded)
- type of brass (military tends to be thicker)

A charge that makes an IPSC PF of 170 in civilian brass may well exceed that in military cases.

Some of the data I've found doesn't take these variables into consideration. Loos like I have to re-invest in a chrono, and this time, actually use it!

One anomaly I've discovered lately is that my 1911's do not like Federal once fired cases! I have stoppages with both 200 and 230 gr bullets with IPSC loads.

[Blair]

PJ,

Once all of this info comes together for you, what will you be shooting?
IPSC or CAS?
I do not shoot a .45 Auto for either, so I don't know what the different qualifications might be.
My best,
Blair

[PJ Hardtack]

I'll be shooting the loads in an IPSC match. For WB in CAS, I use 230 LRN.

I won't be shooting 230 in this match as my 1911 prints them low but puts 200 gr on POA. That defies common knowledge, but the bullet holes don't lie.  I don't want to shave anything off the already low front sight.

I've settled on 4.9 Tite Group just to be on the safe side. IPSC major requires a PF of 170. That's easy with a 230 at 750 fps. A 200 needs 850 fps.

By the way, I won the WB event at our recent CAS event. Looking forward to the next.

[Will Lynchem]

PJ, I still feel if you keep to the IMR load data you will get the velocities you need. Maybe you noticed this one but I will mention it anyway, if you scroll down to the bottom of the load data page there is usually a added load for not so much used bullets such as lead cast swc and other bullets for 45 colt. Just click on the + symbol.  Also a note on things that change muzzle velocity.  About barrel length,  I just had had my Uberti 1873 45 Colt converted to 45 ACP so I can use the same ammo and load in my lever action as I do in my 1911 for Wild Bunch matches. Now  that said, THIS defies all reason!  I ran 20 rounds through both the 1911 and the rifle and my chronograph clocked them at 896 fps for the 1911 and 902 fps for the 1873. Now others that have done this conversion before me have said they had this same result but I just could not get my head around the fact that firing the same round through a pistol with a 5 inch barrel would not increase by a couple of hundred fps when shot through a rifle with a 24 inch barrel.  Go figure.  They were right on the money. Anyway,  good luck with your venture,  and happy & safe shooting.  W. L.

[Good Troy]

the fact that firing the same round through a pistol with a 5 inch barrel would not increase by a couple of hundred fps when shot through a rifle with a 24 inch barrel.

I'm no expert...but this comes to mind...on the longer barrel, the powder charge is spent (burned) before the bullet exists the muzzle, so drag on the barrel slows the bullet.  If the cartridge was shot through a barrel miles in length, it is easy to imagine that it wouldn't make it to the muzzle. 

Maybe I'm over-simplifying it, as there is at least one simple, easy-to-understand "wrong" explanation for anything observed in nature.

[Will Lynchem]

I'll buy that! When you make more Bang than Clang,  you might as well look good doing it! Maybe I should consider dressing up!  W.L.

[Professor Marvel]

My Dear PJ -

I just cracked open my brand new "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition" by Richard Lee and found their stating load in
.45 acp, for a 200 lead bullet , is 4.8 gr titegroup for 877 fps. (not to exceed 5.4 gr ).

Unfortunately they do not mention case type ( which you did mention as problematic) or primer....

While  I expect your load of 4.9 gr will likely do the trick, only the velocimeter will tell.

yhs
prof marvel

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks, Professor!

I'm sure my 4.9 loads will do the trick. All I need is 850 fps. We'll find out starting tomorrow in our 3 day IPSC match. There will be several steel activator targets to operate and I suspect that some 9mm's will have a little trouble.

Then I find out that we will NOT be testing for PF as it is not a high level match! Oh well, at least I'm not fudging with pop-gun loads.  Nor will my wife with her 1911.