Swiss 2F in .44WCF... questions regarding pressure?

[TheHappyGunner]

Howdy folks,

On Monday I had ordered a Uberti SAA clone. It arrived on Wednesday afternoon. Nice!!

This new revolver will be the companion to my Uberti 1873 sporting rifle. Both are chambered for .44WCF, and I have shot BP exclusively through my rifle. My revolver, however, goes unfired. Why?

I can't find any evidence on the strength of these Uberti SAA clones. My hand loaded .44WCF cartridges are assembled to replicate original Winchester loadings, with 36gr (by weight) of Swiss 2F black powder behind a 210gr cast bullet.

This load produces a respectable amount of recoil in my 24" barreled rifle, considering the weight of the rifle and the lead projectile. Would the same load be OK in a Uberti SAA clone? It does have a steel blackstrap, if that makes a difference.

I'm brand new to BP loading (I'm only 22), and the .44WCF is first experiment with this powder. I know that BP burns at a much lower pressure than smokeless, but... can real BP be loaded to dangerous pressures in this firearms? Is my load too strong? Or will a steady diet of these loads through my guns be harmful?

Lots of questions! Thank you all.

[Coffinmaker]

I guess it depends on where you want to go with your toys.  Some answers you'll get will be personal preference and have nothing to do with your actual guns.
Your 44-40 rifle and your 44-40 handgun can and will digest the load you reference without problem.  The question will be whether or not YOU want to play with that amount of recoil.  Your guns (again) will do fine.
BOOOM Shaka Laka 

Coffinmaker

[The Elderly Kid]

THG,
You really can't overload a cartridge with black powder. Unlike smokeless cartridges, the BP's were actually designed to be completely filled with BP, then the slug jammed down, properly compressing the powder. After their introduction, the makers sometimes backed down on their loads because customers were complaining about the recoil, but the pressures were never a problem. It was the same with c&b revolvers. They could be loaded to the top of the chamber without danger (unless you got one with improper heat treatment, but that wasn't the fault of the powder). You're fine with any load, though you may have to use filler with the lighter ones. Just stay away from the heathen powder.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Load 'em up - torch 'em off - and enjoy!

It's the one form of "smoking" that I endorse............

[Cliff Fendley]

That is the load I shoot in my 44wcf's. Except I have started using Old E powder. Enjoy the fun.

[David Battersby]

That is the same load I shoot in my Uberti 1873 Winchester with a 24in barrel  AND my Uberti Remington 1858 with an 8in barrel.
Safe, fun and powerful.
The handgun with this load is a fire breathing dragon , stout and accurate.
After my first trip to the range with the Remington revolver my only question was, " Why would anyone think we needed the 44 Magnum "? Impressed I was !

I shoot Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette with this load in the Uberti/Winchester. It does not damage the pistol targets, but it does send them flying and ringing like a church bell. The full size 200 meter rams always fall when hit above the center line .  Short range under powered 19th century pistol round my foot !

Read the following. This thread and John Kort's advice was very helpful.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,40683.125.html

[Mike]

28grns works fine in both as well

[Blair]

Within the .45 Colt range... I like 31 grs of BP "only" and a 250 gr bullet.
But I found it bangs, pings and/or rings the steel with adequate force and still handles well in both Revolver and Rifle.
My best,
Blair

[Montana Slim]

I doubt you'll see an issue from pressure or fatigue failure in your revolver using the stated BP load.
It will be a handful  in the revolver when shooting duelist as I generally do.
And, my load, only being 31 gr FF + 205 big-lube bullet, has never sincerely been accused of being a gamer load.

You don't mention your use of the cartridge. It would be a fine hunting load in authentic style. I'd certainly load something similar if that was my intended use. A lot of folks (not including me) who shoot BP 44-40 in cowboy matches are using 15-17 gs 3F + filler.

Slim

[wildman1]

The Old Eynsford powder weighs less comparing volume  to volume than Swiss. It also leaves a more moist fouling than Swiss. I only have one rifle that does not seem to like it, an original '92 Button mag in 44/40. wM1

[medic15al]

The modern SAA replica by Pietta and Uberti are made for smokeless loads with higher pressure than Black Powder can generate.

I load my .45 Colts from Uberti and Cimarron with 40 grns of Old Eynsford 3F under a 250 grn Big Lube and it is a thumper on both ends but pressures are not as high as smokeless loads generate. Brass lasts a long time as long as I clean the cases as soon as I get home.

[john boy]

can real BP be loaded to dangerous pressures in this firearms?

Never!  Black powder is a weak powder and as the caliber implies 44-40 - 40grs of powder.  But with today's case - 40 grs doesn't fit unless ones does a double compression.
It being basically a straight wall case - your powder charge of 36gr FFg is a perfect optimum load

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I've had good luck with 40gr of FFg in 44-40, but, its packed in there kinda tight. I use the big lube boolits from DD and NEVER have issues with fouling.

Even with Pyrodex P or RS, the DD boolits work as advertised when used with a quality soft lube. (I make my own and pan-lube these days)

[The Pathfinder]

Happy, you didn't say what length barrel you have on your SA. Take my word for it, the shorter the tube the more uncomfortable you'll be with that load. I have both long and short barreled 44-40 SA's, and the longer barrels take the heavier loads better. Used to be a song I remember about a guy shooting a short barreled 44, and having 17 inches of flame...they may be an understatement. Try touching one off at dusk some night and you'll see what I mean. Enjoy the old 44, they're great old guns.

[Jake C]

Happy, you didn't say what length barrel you have on your SA. Take my word for it, the shorter the tube the more uncomfortable you'll be with that load. I have both long and short barreled 44-40 SA's, and the longer barrels take the heavier loads better. Used to be a song I remember about a guy shooting a short barreled 44, and having 17 inches of flame...they may be an understatement. Try touching one off at dusk some night and you'll see what I mean. Enjoy the old 44, they're great old guns.

I admit, I'd also like to know the barrel length. I'm a big fan of the 7.5 inchers personally. I think they look just 10 different kinds of charming. 

HappyGunner, congrats on your new revolver, let us know how she does!

[Dick Dastardly]

36 grains of FFFg Holy Black is my chosen load for 44 ELR (Extra Long Russian).  That's 44 Magnum for those in Rio Linda.  Your 44WCF will digest this load just fine if it is a good gun in good condition.  (That said for lawyers).  Of course, I shoot Mav Dutchman Big Lube®LLC bullets exclusively so that the fouling stays soft and blows out with the following shot.

The 44-40 case is a great choice for SASS competition.  It has the right balance of power, recoil and bore seal.  Enjoy the shooting!

DD-MDA

[Fox Creek Kid]

I've had good luck with 40gr of FFg in 44-40, but, its packed in there kinda tight....

I have as well in 44-40 revolver. I had to slowlllyyyyyyy drop tube and there was compression as well. Truth be told, the 35 -36 gr. load works just as well and I can tell little difference in recoil & report. I do however recommend FFg & not FFFG.