A couple "Originals" questions

[Will Sellit]

First i want to say I think the Originals class sounds like a lot of fun and is a great idea.
I do have a couple questions on the authenticity of the guns.
I shoot 3rd generation Colts which have the cross pin retainer to hold the cylinder pin. Now if my persona was a rancher in 1880, this was not used on a SAA yet (I believe only blackpowder frames until sometime in 1896). Also my '73 Winchester (Uberti) is in 45LC which again would not be authentic.
How would items like this be judged? I am not sure unless you actually shot original guns from the time period you chose, could you be totally authentic, so how would items like this be judged or could it be different between the three judges.
Thanks for your help.

Will Sellit
NCOWS #1799

[Black River Smith]

I had the same question earlier.  We live with the design and all rules set by NCOWS.  Nothing different.  A '73 design either revolver or rifle is acceptable for all decades.  But are you willing to shoot BP/subs?

Black River Smith

[O.T. Buchannan]

Hey Will, I just answered this question in another thread, but basically, your firearms are fine.  As far as your third generation Colts are concerned, we would not make an issue of that.  That is a neat thing about the Originals...you can push it as far as you PERSONALLY wish to push it.  Many of us are using Italian reproductions with modern writing all over the guns....  That is not an issue, but some folks may wish to personally take it to the point of having those weapons 'defarbed' (modern writing taken off).  I don't do this with the Old West era stuff, but I DO go this far with the Colonial stuff.

Your 1873 Winchester in .45 Colt is fine.  I have a Henry in .44-40, and an 1866 in .45 Colt.  These things will suffice, but you can go further if you WISH. 

Now, speaking of having guns defarbed, I've been thinking about my 1860 Conversion and 1872 Open Top..........

[French Jack]

Will, we did not distinguish between original firearms and replicas or clones.  Any of the approved firearms are acceptable-- with the understanding that they must fit your impression.  The choice of whether to use BP/subs or smokeless is also dictated by your impression.

[James Hunt]

Will: You're right the originals class is great fun if you're into history, and since you are attracted to NCOWS, you are. But I think Marlin's point is that the originals is a dynamic process. You can start at point A and move thru the alphebit of constant improvement. Since I was juired this summer, there are things I see that aren't quite right regarding my documentation, so I'm making changes. Start with the basic concept, remember Marlin defined three levels and move to the final level, once there keep going. Marlin indicated that your firearms are fine, you do the best you can. Maybe someday you'l decide to change, maybe never. Doesn't matter. I shoot a 1st gen Colt circa 1876 (my persona) on occasion, but I more often shoot a late 2nd gen colt with blackpowder frame - still meets my personal requirements. But my Henry uses .45 Colt, I live with that and no one has said anything. I know some who have had thier .44-40 lever guns modified to a 44. straight wall cartidge to more represent a .44 rimfire. great for them. I don't know if I'll go that far or not. Main thing is you don't have to get it perfect at the start, perfection is a direction not a destination. Jim

[Trap]

  James;
"Perfection is a direction, not a destination"



  Excellent Thought!!! 
     jt

[O.T. Buchannan]

By the way, James Hunt has a very good impression, and in my mind is an excellent example of what the Originals is all about.  Now, if he showed up stating that he were a Buffalo Hunter, and his rifle was a .22 Longrifle, well, we might at that time have to examine the contents of his canteen

Anyway, .45 Colt, .44-40 in rifles such as Henry's and 66's is ok...that is what we currently live with in the area of modern reproductions.

[James Hunt]

Thank you for the complement OT, now since you brought up my canteen..., an example of the level of authenticity we each choose. I like most who do the 18th centruy reenactment have stuggled with what to carry water in as most of the eastern frontier crowd didn't have to carry water, they were almost always near it and did not have enough medical knowledge to be concerned about drinking downstream of what they didn't know was upstream. So I've gone thru my share of tin canteens (rust), leather covered bottles (busted), and pitch lined leather (leak), am considering copper (poorly documented and not common in my area) or (shudder) a wool covered stainless job.

Having come close to dehydration once, I don't take it lightly, always carry water. For my mid to late 19th century persona many canteens are available. An accurate portrayal would include a tin civil war style (rust) or wood (leak), or I could buy a military style stainless job covered in wool (didn't feel right about that) and then I found a wood canteen that was a dead ringer for ones issued to confederates (have documentation for that) and guess what, it was lined with some sort of plastic (no leak), I could live with that. Perfection is living with a leaky or rusted canteen or drinking downstream of whatever might be upstream, I did not decide to do that and am quite happy with my choice so far.

Anyway, take it to the level you want and enjoy yourself.

River City John: I don't think underwear is a big issue, easy to document military types who cut their drawers off at the knee. I confess mine are a might higher for comfort, sorta like long boxers, but again - short of perfection but moving in that direction.

[Delmonico]

I've had proper period underwear for 10 years, if you wear them with out proper modern underwear they can cause an unwanted internal modifacation.   Your milage may vary on this one.   

Which brings to mind the old joke among Historians about the Holy Grail of artifacts.  Yes Custer's Jock Strap!  And some folks thought he was a fool.