*** If You Own an ORIGINAL or ARMI SPORT Spencer Rifle - Please Read **

[Two Flints]

Hello SSS,

Please read the following and offer your comments by measuring your original Spencer rifle and/or your Armi Sport Spencer rifle.  Thanks, Two Flints

PLEASE I JUST NEED THE REQUESTED MEASUREMENTS AND NOT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON THE NEED FOR SUCH MEASUREMENTS 

Recently one of my Small Arms Inspectors checked 3 of the new ArmiSport Spencer Rifles, hoping to give them Temporary Approval to be used in the N-SSA's competitive matches. What he found was the location of the middle barrel band does not match an original Spencer Rifle. On all 3 ArmiSport rifles the middle barrel band was 1" too far forward. Instead of the barrel bands being mounted 13.5" forward of the front edge of the receiver, all 3 were 14.5" forward. I am surprised to see a full one inch difference from an original Spencer Rifle. Our allowable +/- tolerance is 0.375" (3/8"). Even with that the middle bands are still 0.625" (5/8") too far out. I took a look at the ArmiSport website and see they advertise it as an 1865 Model, but I didn't think the barrel band locations were any different from the 1860 Model.

Can you shed any light on any of this?

Thanks for any input you may have!

Two Flints

[Glenn]

For what it's worth....
My original '65 rifle
5.65" from face of receiver to first band, 13.5" to second and 21.75 to third
Gotta wonder about the mentality that wants to sweat this!

THANKS, GLENN for taking the time to measure Two Flints

[Hell-Er High Water]

Armi Sport carbine, 56-50.  Fairly early gun.  Purchased May 2004, S/N MO 7XX.

5-5/8" (5.625") from front of receiver to rear of the barrel band.

HHW   

HHH,

JUST LOOKING FOR RIFLE BAND MEASUREMENTS 

Two Flints

[Arizona Trooper]

My M-1860, and M-1867 are 5 5/8", 13 1/2 and 21 11/16" from the receiver face. The M-1865 rifle I use to have was the same. Navy rifles with the saber bayonet will have proportionally closer band spacing since the forearm is shorter (but I don't have the numbers offhand). I was the N-SSA Deep South IG for several years, and every Spencer rifle I inspected had bands within 1/8" of these numbers.

The N-SSA has sweated this level of authenticity since almost the beginning. The guys that started Navy Arms, Euroarms and most of the other importers were N-SSA shooters, and they made sure the Italians got the repros right, even though N-SSA is a tiny part of the repro market. This is why the repros look right, instead of "sorta right". Tammy is an N-SSA shooter too, and I'm sure she is working to get this fixed.   

[Herbert]

my new rifle is 6.5 to fist band,14.5 to second,21.43 to therd,seems that nun match original

Thanks Herbert, and I assume "new rifle" refers to an Armi Sport Reproduction Spencer, right?  Two Flints

[Two Flints]

SSS MEMBERS, PLEASE READ THE COMMENT BELOW POSTED THREE TIMES.  Any other comments will be deleted, so don't ask me why your post was deleted.  I think it's pretty "cut and dry" what I need for information.   

PLEASE I JUST NEED THE REQUESTED MEASUREMENTS AND NOT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON THE NEED FOR SUCH MEASUREMENTS 

PLEASE I JUST NEED THE REQUESTED MEASUREMENTS AND NOT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON THE NEED FOR SUCH MEASUREMENTS 

PLEASE I JUST NEED THE REQUESTED MEASUREMENTS AND NOT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON THE NEED FOR SUCH MEASUREMENTS 

Two Flints

[DJ]

Original Spencer rifles

M1860 SN 3,XXX
M1860 SN 22,XXX
M1867 SN 93,XXX

All are 13.5" from receiver face to back edge of middle band

--DJ

[Jobe Holiday]

My most sincere thanks to Two Flints for posting my question to him in regards to the barrel band placement on an original M-1865 Spencer Rifle v.s. the new/current reproduction M-1865 Spencer Rifle by ArmiSport.

I also thank all of you who took the time to measure the original arms in your personal collections. The dimensions provided have confirmed my original thoughts that the barrel band placement on both the M-1860 and M-1865 Spencer Rifles are, in fact, the same.

The N-SSA isn't "sweating" anything! The lower and middle barrel bands on the current ArmiSport M-1865 Rifle are one full  inch too far forward. The front sight is also a full one-half inch too far forward. For the requirements of the N-SSA, even with our +/- tolerance of 3/8" for the barrel band placement, and 1/4" for the front sight placement, the ArmiSport is still too far out of our allowable tolerance to be accepted. I believe you will have to admit the N-SSA's +/- tolerances are fairly liberal. Arizona Trooper, who is also a past member of the N-SSA's Small Arms Committee, is correct in his statement that a large part the authenticity of the reproduction arms market today is a result of the early efforts of the N-SSA to maintain a higher standard of cosmetic authenticity in reproduction arms.

Again, I thank Two Flints and all others who assisted in this research project.

Sincerely,

Jobe
N-SSA Small Arms Committee
Early Cowboy Action Shooter
Rendezvouser, etc.

[Two Flints]

Just trying to keep the two N-SSA Threads together  

Two Flints

[Fox Creek Kid]

Does anyone know what became of this topic & the NSSA? Has Taylor's changed the rifle bands & front sight? 

[Jobe Holiday]

Fox Creek Kid, etal -

There have been no communications between the N-SSA and Taylor's for the year 2010.

JH
N-SSA Small Arms Committee

[Fox Creek Kid]

Any updates on this? Has Chiappa changed this yet?   

[Jobe Holiday]

Fox Creek Kid, et alia -

ArmiSport Chiappa has had no contact with the N-SSA's Small Arms Committee regarding their Spencer Rifle for the past 5 years. However, one of their newly produced examples was recently reviewed at a N-SSA Regional Match in Illinois. At that time it was found to have the barrel bands properly located, but the front sight location was still in error.

J.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Jobe, I "blew" up the photo on the DGW website and what you say appears exactly true. Thanks. 

[PvtGreg]

I recently purchased an ArmiSport (Chiappia) Spencer rifle and the barrel bands are indeed correct.  the front sight is still ~1" to far forward.

[Blair]

It would be much easier to correct this front sight issue during the manufacture of the firearm. Especially considering the cost of the firearm.
I only own one AS Spencer, and that is an early .44 Russian Cal. 1865 variation. I knew when I bought it, it would not be approved by the N-SSA because of the caliber. As a result of my first purchase, I have not tried keeping up with AS Spencer changes/variation over the years.
I can't help but wonder what other changes AS has made over the years that might keep the N-SSA from approving their Rifles?
My curiosity has not been great enough to cause me to want to invest in another one to find out.
My best,
Blair

[treebeard]

My Armi Sport Spencer rifle has the middle band 14.5 inches in front of receiver. It was bought with the 2014 import
of the 44-40's.