Thesis on sourdough

[half-hitch]

I'm not trying to steal your thunder, Delmonico.  I've seen your posts and know what you do and you do an excellent job.  I doubt I could pull off half of what I've seen you make in your ovens but my thang is sourdough and I make a lot of it.  I've also done a lot of research on it.  The microbiologist would tell you what kind of yeast to use if you asked him but if you asked him whether or not you even needed to add yeast to it, he probably would have given you a different answer.

Sourdough starter can be made in 24 hours with just flour and water in a covered container.  I use tap water straight from the faucet and don't worry about the temperature because it's all going to be room temperature before anything starts to happen.  The link I posted tells about how scientists sterilized the flour and it wouldn't create a culture.  That's because the yeast is on the grain (flour) and not in the air.  There are a lot of websites that will say differently but there's a lot of misinformation on the web about all kinds of subjects.  Many times, these site just steal info from others to they perpetuate bad information.

I store mature starter in the fridge feeding it once a month.  I can then take it out and make bread with it after one feeding (24 hours).  When it's on the counter, it's fed every 24 hours if I'm using whole grains and every 12 hours if I'm using AP or bread flour.  I don't use super refined flour like AP or bread flour because it's harder to start, harder to keep and less healthy.  If hooch forms on the surface the starter is telling you that it's starving.  I make new batches of starter every 6 months or so.  

One more point that I disagree with is that sourdough doesn't like to be punched down.  The less it is handled, the better the crumb.  Punching destroys all of those beautiful gas bubbles that give it it's familiar texture.  I don't even knead mine.  I do what is called a stretch and fold 3 times over 3 hours period, allow the dough to rest for 2 hours and then into the fridge for up to 30 hours.  I take it straight from the fridge, score it and place it in my preheated dutch oven and bake it. 

[Delmonico]

You are assuming again, that was well discussed when talking with both of them, the micro-biolagy is very complicated and the yeast can come from the air or the wheat and some areas of the country need an added yeast because they type of yeast in the wheat won't work well and the air lacks wild yeast.

Some parts of the world work good like the Bay area out in Cally-forn-ya, some areas like this part of the Great Plains does not, no matter how the srain of yeast that works well got into the mix as long as you have got a viable culture of yeast and bacteria you will have good results and that is what has to be done in this area.

I tried to start them that way and others I have talked to have also, never found one that had good results in this area, even ones who had made them that way elsewhere.   That is when I turned to the micro-biologists for help and we talked far more than sourdough, but all manner of useful yeasts.  I now get good results this way and call it what you want, it works.

As for the punching, I don't like those big holes you get in the no knead breads,  I'm also happy with the way I work my bread and the texture.  To each his own.

[half-hitch]

All of the research in the world isn't helpful if you're not going to the right sources.  On the web, you can find the answer you seek by the way you ask the question.  If you ask about making sourdough with commercial yeasts, there are hundreds of sites that will tell you that's how you do it.  If you want to learn about using fruits in your starter to give it a boost, there are hundreds of sites that will tell you that's a good way to do it too but if you want to make authentic sourdough, which is made only with wild yeasts that are contained in a bag of flour, then there's only one way to do that and that is to create a starter using no added commercial yeast.  Sourdough gets its flavor from a long, slow proof and that's not how commercial yeasts work.  You'll never get the flavor from a commercial yeast starter that you'll achieve with a true sourdough starter.

I don't know why you've been unable to make your own with only flour and water because I don't know how you went about it but I can promise you that the only difficult thing in making sourdough from nothing but flour and water is wading through all of the BS on the internet.  At first, and after much reading, I was unsure if this was something I could do since I'd never even made bread before but I soon learned that it was actually a very simple process and if you follow the correct procedure, it works every time.

You're microbiologist friend knows about yeast but he may not be aware of the fact that his yeast isn't a requirement for a true sourdough culture.  I'm living proof that of that.  I'd be happy to share my sourdough culture information on how to start and feed one but my gut  feeling is that it's more important for you to be right than to learn something new, no disrespect intended.

I still admire what you do and I respect the fact that you have your method and are 100% satisfied.  I hope you have a great week. 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

If anyone is hesitant about using water treated by a public water authority in a sourdough starter, how about rainwater?

[half-hitch]

I'b make sure the rain water was pure.  I live in an earth contact and believe it or not, something likes to crap on my roof.  Probably a coon or possum.  I collect rainwater but only for watering with.

Try the tap water and see if it works.  Mine does.  If not, get some distilled water.  

Here's how I make my starter for anyone who is interested. 



ACTIVE SOURDOUGH STARTER RECIPE:
2 tbsp. rye flour (or flour of your choice)
2 tbsp. water

*NOTE:  I recommend whole grain flours.  AP and bread flour have been highly processed and are not as nutritious as whole grains.  I prefer stone ground flours like Bob's Red Mill, Hodgson's Mill, etc.

Add flour and water together in a pyrex measuring cup or small jar and cover with plastic wrap.  Stir daily 2 or 3 times a day and you should begin to see activity (bubbles usually within 24 hours) and detect a slightly sour smell.  Once you begin to see bubble forming in the starter, you need to start feeding it daily.

To feed the starter, add 2 more tbsp. of water and 2 tbsp. of flour on the first feeding.  By the second day, you'll now have about 1/4 cup of starter.  When you feed it each time, you are doubling the amount you're feeding it so now you'll need to add 1/4 cup of water and 1/4 cup of flour.  As you can see, you can end up with a lot of starter very quickly so what you do is when you get the amount the recipe calls for, you throw out half of the starter each time you feed it.  If you have 1/4 cup of starter, throw half of it away (1/8 cup) and add 1/8 cup of water and 1/8 cup of flour.  You can give the discard starter to friends or refrigerate it for later use.  You only need to feed it monthly in the fridge.  Always make more starter than the recipe calls for so you can save some back for future batches.  It will keep a long time in the refrigerator and the older it gets, the better it gets. 

At some point you might pull it from the fridge and notice a grayish liquid on top and it will smell like alcohol.  It is alcohol and it's because your starter is very hungry.  This is part of the flavoring and initial hydration so stir it back in and start feeding the starter again for several days to get it nice and active for your next baking day.  The alcohol cooks off during baking.

Questions?  Ask me.