Taylors firing pins: Inertial or not

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy to the camp,

All of you Taylor's owners!  Check and see if you have inertial firing pins, or non inertial on your Taylors Spencer.  My last 56-50 Infantry rifle and a 56-50 carbine had inertial firing pins: i.e. you could open the action with a spent round in the chamber.  My new Infantry rifle is non-inertial.  With the hammer down, the firing pin protrudes into the chamber, meaning you have to cock the weapon before you cycle the spent round from the chamber.

I wonder when they changed this.

Personally, I prefer a non-inertial like on my current Spencer for more positive ignition.  The inertial ones on my prior Spencers had a hard time with Winchester hard primers.  They probably would have had some problems with the polyethelene blanks too.  The 209 shotgun primers you use in them tend to be hard, and the blanks cases tend to seat a little deeper.

Maybe we can have a poll or list with serial number (543XX, etc) and I or NI

[Black River Smith]

Please describe the parts difference.

I stripped mine for coeaning and the spring in front of the firing pin was thin.  It had enough strength to over come the plate and screw block but would not have pushed the hammer back.  Hammer down does push plate forward.

More information please.

Thanks

[Ed Clintwood]

TL,  I thought mine was non-initerial because if I cycle the action with the hammer down I get a very light ding on the primer.  I mean VERY light, but it is there.  On the other hand, I can rack the action with a spent round in the chamber and the hammer down.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

The easiest way to tell is to put a fired case in the chamber, close the action, then lower the hammer to the block.

If you can open the action without cocking the hammer, it is an inertial firing pin.  That means that the hammer travels forward to stike the firing pin, using that inertia to send the firing pin forward into the primer.  With the hammer resting on the block, the firing pin will not protrude from the block.  It iis the inertia of the hammer hit that overcomes the firing pin spring tension keeping it from protruding, and sends the pin forward into the primer, even after the hammer has stopped.

With a non=inertial firing pin, when the hammer is down, the firing pin prtrudes from the block.  It is the force of the hammer resting on the firing pin that sends the pin forward.  This allows the weight of the hasmmer to heelp overcome the surface of the primer.

[Frenchie]

Is this simply a matter of the length of the firing pin? IOW the inertial pin is shorter and, with the hammer down, its spring pulls it back into the breech face, while the non-inertial pin is longer, and the hammer holds it in place protruding through the hole in the breech face?

I have an old model Ruger Single Six and the firing pin protrudes through the breech face when the hammer is down. If I understand this, then it's a non-inertial firing pin, right?

Dagburn newfangled guns. Percussion is so much easier to understand... pass the headache powder, please.

[major]

I have heard of people with the S&S conversion shearing off the pin because they did not take the pressure off the pin by cocking the hammer.  I have also noticed when firing my original 56-56 with the S & S conversion that he lever is hard to move after I have fired a round unless I first cock the hammer.  Sometimes you can see a mark left on the primer and casing where the pin was dragged through.  Because remember the block goes down before it pulls away form the cartridge. I suggest that you always cock the hammer to at least half cock before levering the gun.
Terry

[Black River Smith]

I agree with you Major.  I will always cock the hammer and then cycle.  Would hate to break a firing pin in a match.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Besides, the fastest way to cycle the Spencer while shooting (IMHO) is to not take the arm from the shoulder position and with your right hand sweep back the hammer to full cock and then rack the lever while slightly tilting the arm to a side as to aid the empty upon ejection.

[Wes Tancred]

I wonder if any Armi Sport Spencers have a bona fide "inertial firing pin". The design of the block, and the firing pin mechanism seems to me unsuited for the inertial principle. Is it possible that what seems, on some guns, to be an inertial firing pin is in reality an ordinary pin that is a bit on the short side, or a case of the screws on the sliding connecting bar (which transfers the motion of the hammer to the pin) being loose?

I have checked my .56-.50 carbine, and the pin protrudes from the breech face when the hammer is down.

[Trailrider]

I have heard of people with the S&S conversion shearing off the pin because they did not take the pressure off the pin by cocking the hammer.  I have also noticed when firing my original 56-56 with the S & S conversion that he lever is hard to move after I have fired a round unless I first cock the hammer.  Sometimes you can see a mark left on the primer and casing where the pin was dragged through.  Because remember the block goes down before it pulls away form the cartridge. I suggest that you always cock the hammer to at least half cock before levering the gun.
Terry

Sir:
Unless they have changed, the S&S centerfire breechblock can be set up as either an inertial or non-inertial firing pin, depending on how much material is removed from the rear of the striker.  I set mine up as an inertial type, but when doing rapid fire, I still cock the hammer before levering, as it is simply faster.  In the manual-of-arms I have read, the procedure was to bring the hammer to half-cock, lever in the round, and then go to full cock and fire.  Obviously too slow for a combat situation.

[French Jack]

The Taylor's does not really have an inertial firing pin.
There May be Differences in the Lock, which would allow the hammer to travel a different amount, and perhaps does not have the spring tension to hold the hammer down on the breech when fired.
If the bar that actuates the firing pin is not tight or is short, the pin may not protrude when the hammer is at rest.  Mine does protrude, so do most of the ones I have examined.
This is the reason that I heartily recommend going to half cock before opening the action, and full cock when the new round is chambered and the action closed.  A slam fire is not a thing to be desired, nor the possibility of breaking a firing pin.

Just my two cents worth.

[smittyc7]

This may or may not be related, but I have a Taylors carbine, and this last reenactment the round would not fire the first try, but when I recocked and released, it would fire.  I will take it apart tomorrow to make sure the tip isn't sheared off short, but two hits to get a fire can't be right.

Anyone experience this sort of problem?

[Snakeeater]

Sir:
Unless they have changed, the S&S centerfire breechblock can be set up as either an inertial or non-inertial firing pin, depending on how much material is removed from the rear of the striker.  I set mine up as an inertial type, but when doing rapid fire, I still cock the hammer before levering, as it is simply faster.  In the manual-of-arms I have read, the procedure was to bring the hammer to half-cock, lever in the round, and then go to full cock and fire.  Obviously too slow for a combat situation.

S&S has just over the past three years changed their design to the same inertia firing pin design that is inherit in the Buffalo Arms breechblock design, using a transfer bar that is independent of the firing pin. Unlike their earlier design which incorporated a detent (compression) spring that held the firing pin assembly rearward and against the hammer, the new design uses much the same spring design as the M1911 Colt Automatic, with the firing pin shouldered against a compression spring axially aligned, a transfer bar lying to the rear transfers the energy of the hammer to the firing pin which propels it against the primer. In both designs, unless there is any kind of fouling or sand present that binds the firing pin in the forward position, the firing pin should strike the primer then disengage and return to its initial inertia position. The newer S&S breechblock design is like the first illustration; their earlier design is illustrated fourth with the firing pin assembly like that pictured (far right)

[smittyc7]

Excellent!  As it turns out, the Armi Sport reproduction had a broken tab that covered the firing pin/spring assembly, which evidently was jamming.  Ordered a new one from Taylors.  But your discussion turned on the light that I had a Buffalo Arms top block in my original carbine that I retired after the 150 Selma reenactment.  I took it apart and saw the difference.  Nice design, but the bad part was the Buffalo isn't interchangeable with the Taylors.  I've ordered replacement parts, but I am seriously thinking about looking into seeing if BACO makes a top block for the Armi Sport.  Much more robust design.

I appreciate your post.

Dave