Uberti 73 Accuracy

[Killshot Kenny]

Howdy,
I have a Taylor Made 73 Uberti in 45 Colt. It is a beautiful gun in what looks to be great condition.
Before I even shot it I installed a Marbles Peep on the tang. It is dead centre and solid. I shoot a 200 grain
round nose to about 900 fps. When sighting in to shoot into a 2 inch circle at 15 yards, it shoots so far left that the rear sight must be adjusted completely over to the right side to hit the circle (on the left side). Is this due to bullet spin? Is the gun barrel bent? Can you bend a barrel by putting something heavy on it while in a soft case. I did buy the gun used. Is this a common thing? I wouldn't have thought this with a Uberti. I have one in 38/357 that is set dead center and hits dead center.
At fifty yards with the sights centered the gun would be shooting a couple of feet to the left.
Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Ken

[Pettifogger]

You installed a Marbles peep sight.  "It is dead centered and solid."  There is no way for you to know that by eye.  Most of the 73 Ubertis I have seen require drilling a hole to mount the peep sight.  Drilling that hole and the normal variances in the tang shape can make a BIG difference in bullet strike.   Thus, any installation is a crap shoot.  You can either shim the tang sight or drift the front sight to correct the winage.  Not the least bit uncommon for a tang sight installation.  No the barrel is not bent and no it is not caused by bullet spin.  It is caused by the sight not being perfectly aligned.

[Killshot Kenny]

Howdy again,

As I said "Before I even shot it I installed a Marbles Peep on the tang. It is dead centre and solid."
I installed the longer rear screw and aligned it to the tang. The tang didn't taper and I left about a 32nd of an inch on either side. I centre punched it and drilled and tapped the front hole. Being overly critical I could say that it is a couple of thousands to the right.
But that was because their hole was off that much. Can't drive the front sight as it is a Lyman 17A and is centered to the flats of the barrel.
I believe that you must be thinking of a different sight when you said it didn't adjust, as mine has a big knobbly thing on the right side that moves the back sight over when I turn it. I will have to learn how to upload pics on this site.
I have a couple of 73's in 38 and neither do this. I guess shimming the base is one option. The sight didn't look out of perpindicular to me though.

[yahoody]

Here is what I would do.
Make sure the front sight is solid, secure and most importantly square on the barrel.  Then I'd fold the tang sight up and shoot some groups with the iron sights to verify that the gun will shoot.  Start at 10 yards and then at 25.  If you can't do it, no harm done, but find someone where you shoot that is capable.  If the gun won't shoot virtually one hole at both distances at POINT OF AIM with known ammo I'd say it is the rifle.  I haven't seen many bad Ubertis...but not uncommon for them to put the front sight or rear dovetails in crooked or make them so loose that either sight moves around while shooting.

I bought a really nice rifle, sight unseen, from the editor of a well known gun magazine recently.  First time out I noticed both front and rear sights were off center.  I thought to myself..."no wonder he sold this one."  And "chit! gonna be a bad rifle!".

I shot the gun and it seemed to have good potential but  the sights were not centered and neither were the groups.  Rookie mistake. 
Gun also needed to be smoothed up a bit inside and a good cleaning to keep it running.

I did both and then pulled both front and rear sight...front I could move by hand...back almost as loose.  Tightened the dove tails with a brass hammer and punch.  Added some red Loctite and centered both the front and back sight.  Gun shot perfect point of aim at 25 yards once sorted.

Obviously the 1st owner never even bothered to sort the rifle out.  His loss.  My gain long term.  Good luck on yours!

[dusty texian]

Hey Kenner . if it were mine I would do what that Yahoody said, that should get your rifle straightened out so to speak. And remember the moves you make on the sights at 15yd. will have about three times greater effect on the target at say 50yd. Yes you can bend a barrel by setting something heavy on it in a soft case ,but I doubt that is the problem very unlikely . Hope you get it worked out , keep us posted.,,,DT

[Killshot Kenny]

Thanks guys,

The sight mounting doesn't look to be the problem. Both are nice and tight and installed properly. I will put the original front and back sight back on and see if it will shoot with out the rear sight pushed over to the right. I have a shoot this weekend so it will be early next week before I can get to it. It is funny as last year I remember shooting and hitting the hundred yard gong and the rear sights were centered and not mover all the way over to the right.

Cheers

[yahoody]

Hitting the 100 yard gong tells me you can shoot

Doing it a year ago tells me the rifle can as well.  Or could last year anyway!  As Dusty said you could bend a barrel but not likely unless you drove over it with your truck or used it to pry the wagon out of the mud. 

[Killshot Kenny]

I watched the video of making a Petroselli rifle and they "tweeked" the barrel straight a few time during the barrel sequence. They are made out of mild steel and it didn't take much. In the past woodsmen used to tweek muzzle loading trade guns (single shot shotguns) by whomping them over a rotten stump to get them to shoot where they were aimed. I'm not saying that I am looking for a rotten stump but in the video it looked like they were using a drill press setup with the barrel between to braces. They could tell by looking down the barrel at a light and looking at the shadows in the rifling.

Kenner

[mehavey]

...it shoots so far left...

1.  Center the front sight/Center the rear sight
2.  Cut several thin strips (1/8-3/16th wide) out of the side of an aluminum Coke can
3.  Loosen the rear sight base and slip a strip of aluminum under the left side of the base/up against the screws
4.  Tighten the base down and shoot a test round at 25 yards
5.  Loosen/Add more shims/Tighten base as required to tilt the sight post so as to roughly center the strike left/right.
6.  Take it out to 50 and adjust windage to center
7.  Take it out to 75 and ensure things are still centered left/right.

All told this should take no more that a half-dozen rounds start-finish.

[yahoody]

A bent barrel would be my last thought.  And worth noting they do sell new barrels.

"Can you bend a barrel by putting something heavy on it while in a soft case. I did buy the gun used."

You could but it aint likely IMO.  I've seen bad rifles passed around to naïve buyers (myself included).   But if the gun shot once with reasonable care between time...it should still shoot now.  Easy enough to tell once the original sights  are back on the gun.

[mehavey]

The barrel isn't bent.  If so it wouldn't shoot to point-of-aim w/ centered original sights.

The barrel may not be square where screwed into the receiver.  If so, the alignment with the receiver's rearmost extension on the tang may not align.

Before anybody starts bending anything, put a 36" straightedge aligned/centered onto the tang-receiver assembly and see if the barrel points significantly away from that line.

If not, start shimming the rear sight as in Post #23

[Mike]

I would go back to the origanal sights. Shoot gun
then put tang sight on, see how it lines up, most time it wont line up with  the front and rear sight.
i then stone the tang sight base till i get the correct aliment
These guns we are working with are not custom made target rifles and are not prestion fitted. My 32 73 had a twisted frame when we came to re barrel it, i bought it second hand and the barrel had been pulled and re fitted. Was it over tightened and twisted. I will never know but it was soft enough to get back and it shoots straight again now.

[Blackfoot]

The front sight, the rear sight  and the tang sight should align is everything is properly centered.  If they don't, something is wrong.  If it shoots to POA using the front sight and the rear sight but not when using the front and tang sight something is wrong.  The tang sight can can be perfectly centered on the tang but not be perfectly vertical.  (that is the thing that I would look for first)

Blackfoot

[Mike]

Trouble is you cant garantee Uberti have put the tang stock screw in the centre.
My first 73 shot to point of aim with factory sight, put a tang on twenty metre ok out to fifty out to the right after adjusting and locking the tang post. After ajusting the base it is central with front and rear sight in all adjustments. Now the Tang may not be plum either but i was not prepared to mill that plum.

[Killshot Kenny]

Thanks guys,

You all have been very helpful and informative. Finally got done with this weekend shoot. Used my 38 and came in first in my class and snagged the medium range side match. Then I noticed the nub missing off the front of the bolt face. But that's another entry  
I reinstalled the original rear sights and lined everything up. The rear barrel sight was just a touch to the right and well within acceptable adjustment. The tang sights was still cranked all of the way to the right. Looking at it very closely I thought that if the upright could just move over a little, and I started to push it... it moved. This was the new improved sight with the replaceable uprights. Although I have never played with it there seemed to give to allow it to move just a little but remain tight enough to not move easily. (not to notice it) I can shim the base to make it fit tighter or what just occurred to me was a wee bit of red lock tight with a little releasing agent on the adjustment knob would make it permanent and solid.

Thanks again for everyones help.

[mehavey]

You might want to look at this solution to sideplay in the Marbles.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/cowboy-rifles/17049-marbles-tang-sight-post-loose.html#post179020
(heck, I may even try it on my two `92's)  




post:  You also want to make absoliutely sure the two upper/lower jam-nuts are tight tight tight against each other.

[Killshot Kenny]

Yes that seems to be the problem. The upper post is held into the lower unit by a small allen key. This is a sloppy fitting post. I can shim the gap but will have to cut a hole for the ball bearing or as I said a little red locktight with a releasing agent on the upper portion should take the play out of it.
Looking into the subject a little more it seems that it is a very common complaint with the "improve marbles" sight.

Thanks to all you guys for the advise and help.

KK