38 Long Colt Chamber Size? Help!

[Crow Scout]

I started my 1st Model Richards Conversions on my pair of Navy pistols last weekend.  I've gotten quite a bit done but have a lot more to go.  I'm about to counter-bore the cylinder then ream it out to the proper size for the 38 Long Colt cartridges. 

My question is what exactly is the correct size that I ream the chambers out to?  Can someone measure their chambers for me?  I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

I have a ton of pictures and measurements.  As soon as I get back home (I'm in MO but live in CO) I'll post as much info as I can just in case someone wants to do the same. 

Thanks In Advance

Martin

[Fox Creek Kid]

I started my 1st Model Richards Conversions on my pair of Navy pistols...

Navy? 1st Model Richards conversions were ONLY on Army models, i.e. .44 cal.  Richards Mason conversions were in both .44 Colt & .38 Colt and the chambers (on the Navy models) were left factory, approx. 0.375 + - a few thousandths as they merely machined off the back of the cylinder & recut the ratchet for the new two pronged hand.

[Crow Scout]

I was aware that only Army pistols were converted to 1st Model Richards.  I wanted something different and I liked the look of the Richards and the Navies fit my hands better. 

It takes more than just cutting the back ends of the cylinders off.  I've already done that and it will still need to be reamed out.  There seems to be a very slight taper in the cylinder. 

Again if anyone can tell me exactly what the cylinder size is reamed to I would be very appreciative.  My 38 Long Colt cartridges measure out to .381 and my 38 Special cartridges measure .379.  If I were to ream to .381 the cartridges would be a really tight fit if I could get them to fit at all.  What I need to know is do I cut to .382, .383, etc. 

Thanks for the help.

Hopefully pictures will be posted in the next couple of days. 

[Crow Scout]

I justed picked up some different cartridges and it seems the casing OD varies a bit.  I'm going to start out with about a .379 and move my way up I guess...... just in case anyone cared 

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Crow Scout,
You need to order a .38 long colt chambering reamer from Clymers, thats where I get my .44 colt and .38 long colt reamers...and it will be the rigtht size when you get it.

Bill

[Crow Scout]

Bill,

Thanks for the reply.  What I did was just ream the cylinder all the way through since I'll be shooting heeled bullets.  We started out with a .377 reamer and worked our way up until the cartridges would fit.  I think we got it just right.  If I plan to do any more I'll probably break down and get the 38 LC reamer from Clymer or Manson. 

We're working on the breech plate now and then the cylinder ratchet.  We just found the correct cutter for the ratchet teeth so I hope to get that going in the next couple of days. 

Bill, one last thing.  Do you happen to know if the Navy and the Army conversions would use the same hand?  I'm going to cut the ratchet exactly as the McDowell book states but I don't have the hand in front of me.  I plan on using a Uberti Richards-Mason hand.  My concern is that the hands may be different due to the difference in the frame and cylinder sizes.  Oh and I think the book may be incorrect in the advance of the ratchet teeth.  It says 15 degrees but I'm pretty sure it should be 30 degrees.  What are your thoughts on this?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Crow Scout,
If you were making this conversion as the original 1st model Richards were made in .44 Colt, (rebated cylinder/frame) you would have to recut the cylinder ratchet teeth to where they are located between the chambers of the cylinder and yes you would have to use a different hand, more like the ones on the 1873 colt peacmakers (which I use and modify to use in the 1860 conversions that I do).

Since you have decided to make this in .38 LC, and the cylinder is not rebated, the teeth do not have to be recut so you can use the original hand that is in the 1851 navy.

Just a note:
Like Fox Creek Said, they never made the 1st model Richards using a Navy frame....and, they were always in .44 colt with a Army frame and rebated frame/cylinder...so in essence you're making a conversion that old Sam Colt never made....that said, if you could ever come up with a verifiable 'Blacksmith' version, that would be pretty neat... But, if there was such a hy-brid, I'm sure Bruce McDowell would have featured it in his book....

Bill

[Crow Scout]

Bill,
What we ended up doing was removing the old ratchet and cutting it down just as the RM conversions were done.  After the counterbore there wasn't much left at the original ratchet teeth location so we advanced it just as the RM conversions.  In essence this will be the same as a RM only with the 1st Model breech plate and hammer.  For the most part we stuck with the Navy RM conversion info for the cylinder.

I'm not aware of any Navy 1st Model Richards conversions either.  I wasn't really going for historical accuracy but rather something I thought would be kinda neat and different.  Hopefully it works out. 

Thanks again for the hand info.