.44 remington centerfire cartridge

theredheadedstranger · May 02, 2015, 11:44:05 AM

I have this old Remington that was converted to cartridge that was labeled 44-40 when I bought it. After researching a bit I have learned that Remington had their own shell for it , the .44 Remington centerfire cartridge. I finally found some info on that cartridge but not much info at all.

Would it be possible to make the brass from .41 magnum brass

From what I can find here is the brass specs of both cases

.41 magnum .44 Remington centerfire
Bullet diameter Bullet diameter
.410 in (10.4 mm) 0.447 in (11.4 mm)

Neck diameter Neck diameter
.434 in (11.0 mm) 0.447 in (11.4 mm)

Base diameter Base diameter
.434 in (11.0 mm) 0.448 in (11.4 mm)

Rim diameter Rim diameter
.492 in (12.5 mm) 0.480 in (12.2 mm)

Litl Red · May 02, 2015, 01:18:26 PM

The pistol is marked 44-40 right?

First thing to do is see if a 44-40 fits.

The 44 you're apparently looking at is a heel bullet. Finding dies and molds is going to be a bit difficult. The brass you're looking at won't match diameter to the bullet that fits the barrel and won't be safe in the larger cylinder and the rim is probably too large. A bullet that fit the brass is going to be way too small for the bore.

Got any pictures of the gun?

Mike · May 02, 2015, 01:56:36 PM

If it was a cap and ball pistol conversion it will have a bore diamiter of .451-.452 or greater.
What this means is what ever case you find fits you will need a Heeled lead projectile and mould.
I use a 44 colt case in a conversion i made from a 1858 Rem by Uberti.
The Remington 1875 rounds I have made were from 41 colt cases fire formed but that guns round id different again.
You need to work out your chamber size before you can start anything.
I like tbese sort of jobs.

theredheadedstranger · May 02, 2015, 02:07:40 PM

Hello Lil Red, I do have a couple of pics of the revolver (they were the pics taken by the guys that had it for sale and I saved them)
It has the wrong grips on it and missing a few parts. The revolver is at the smith's house being looked over and repaired and checked to make sure it is safe to shoot. He is also going to check the bore and stuff. It has nice rifling in the barrel though.

Also I do not know how to post pics.

Hello Mike, After I made the post and sent it, I looked at the 30-06 case. The 30-06 case looks like it might be a better case to start with. However the rim of the case on a 30-06 is .473 so it would be .007 smaller so it might work.

Also I doubt I would ever shoot it to begin with but would like to have that option.

Pettifogger · May 02, 2015, 08:38:52 PM

Quote from: theredheadedstranger on May 02, 2015, 02:07:40 PM
Hello Lil Red, I do have a couple of pics of the revolver (they were the pics taken by the guys that had it for sale and I saved them)
It has the wrong grips on it and missing a few parts. The revolver is at the smith's house being looked over and repaired and checked to make sure it is safe to shoot. He is also going to check the bore and stuff. It has nice rifling in the barrel though.

Also I do not know how to post pics.

Hello Mike, After I made the post and sent it, I looked at the 30-06 case. The 30-06 case looks like it might be a better case to start with. However the rim of the case on a 30-06 is .473 so it would be .007 smaller so it might work.

Also I doubt I would ever shoot it to begin with but would like to have that option.

The .30-06 is a rimless cartridge meaning the rim is the same OD as the base of the cartridge.

Litl Red · May 03, 2015, 02:14:27 PM

Quote from: theredheadedstranger on May 02, 2015, 02:07:40 PM
............
Hello Mike, After I made the post and sent it, I looked at the 30-06 case. The 30-06 case looks like it might be a better case to start with. However the rim of the case on a 30-06 is .473 so it would be .007 smaller so it might work.
...............

You're looking now at a rifle cartridge, it doesn't have any dimension that works for what you want, and have the wrong dimensions for it.

What do you presently shoot? Where do you shoot?

theredheadedstranger · May 03, 2015, 03:18:12 PM

Hey Lil Red, presently I shoot on my property (farm). After looking at the 30-06 cartridge the rim of it wouldn't work to good I don't think. Also any brass used I believe would have to be resized first. Presently I have a new henry 45lc and a berretta stampede 45lc.

I don't shoot in any cowboy competition at the moment.

Before I do anything though I will wait until I receive my pistol back from the smith

theredheadedstranger · May 03, 2015, 03:42:15 PM

trying to post a pic here

Black River Smith · May 15, 2015, 03:46:31 PM

That is a very nice looking blacksmith/gunsmith conversion. Is the cylinder one piece or two pieces soldered/welded?

I studied the Remington conversions back in the 80's before anyone started making them. You're correct about the listed 44 Rem sizes. I truly would guess this is for the 44Rem case not a 44/40 unless that is a new larger one piece cylinder. The 44Rem was a straight bored cylinder of 0.450. That is the same size as the original percussion cylinder bore diameter. They just drilled them through and made a 0.448 cartridge to fit. Never got past the casing so I did not study the lead bullet other than a 0.44 and a 0.46(equal to a colt 45).

First suggestion is try to find a copy of the McDowell book 'A study of Colt Conversions and other percussion revolvers'. About the first 100 pages covers others and a full chapter on remingtons from factory and like yours.

The second is get a hold of a Dixie catalog and look in the reference information in the back of the catalog. There is a conversion cartridge suggestion table and the 44Rem is listed. Now it has been a number of years since I read that info and I no longer have a copy but I sort of remember them suggesting the use of a 30/40 krag casing. I think it still needed to be swaged down. That is going to be the big problem with that cartridge, no existing cartridge is near that 0.448" size. I know I tried years ago. I am no machinist so I could not make a re-sizing die either nor a die strong enough to 'swage' a modern 44 to that size. If you are really interested in shooting this maybe start with a 22o swift casing. It is rimmed and base is close at 0.442. The next is expanding the cut case to handle a 44 sized bullet. Odd shape but it is similiar to using a 38 as a substitute for a 41colt.

Good luck on your search and it is still nice piece of history, even if you cannot shoot it.

PS -- Nonte cartridge conversion book does not list the 44 Rem conversion.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · May 15, 2015, 07:59:08 PM

Check the measurements of .44 Colt and .44 Remington Army. Coincidence?

http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm

Mike · May 15, 2015, 09:58:50 PM

I have some 6.5x50 cases some one cut down for a 44 Remington 75, they had put a 44 projectile in them. The trouble with the 44 projectile will be too small in either the 44 CB conversion or the 75.
The case at the base are a beter size than the 41 case but will have to be fire formed as with 41's
fun and games shooting these old guns