Indian Wars era uniform questions

[hp246]

Have a couple of questions about Indian Wars era enlisted (Sgt. Major) Cavalry uniform.

1.  What are acceptable colors for hat.  I understand originally they were dark blue or black, but have seen depictions of a tan hat.  Would the tan hat be acceptable for enlisted or were they officer only?

2.  What would have been the proper buttons for a bib shirt?  Wood? Brass?  Other?

Thanks.

[pony express]

The hat will depend on what years you are portraying. Earlier they were black, later, maybe mid 1880's they changed to tan. But for the earlier period, up to mid 70's or so, they often wore a lot of civilian items when on campaign, so any period hat, even straw would work for that.

For the shirt, I assume you're meaning the "shield front" shirt? These weren't issue either, but again civilian items worn because of poor quality of the military issue stuff.

Keep checking here, I'm sure Pitspitr or Drydock will be along soon with more details and exact years for the changes.

[St. George]

Might be a good time to figure out what time frame you want to portray - early or late Indian War period.

Campaign uniforms were a lot more relaxed - but not so much for Officers and senior NCOs.

Dress uniforms are a world unto their own.

Your local Public Library has references - stop by and talk to a Librarian.

Also, there are numerous threads on proper dress in this forum, so start digging.

Scouts Out!

[Drydock]

www.history.army.mil/html/museums/uniforms/survey_uwa.pdf

[hp246]

The time period would be late period.  Probably early 1880s.  I have done some research, but that research has been conflicting. As Pony Express said, I know the shirt wasn't issue, but read that troopers would frequently by these shirts on their own, as they like the extra protection afforded by the front flap.  But I am unable to find any specific information regarding the buttons. 
Thanks Drydock.  Interesting piece. 

[CPL Jayhawker Jake]

But I am unable to find any specific information regarding the buttons. 
Thanks Drydock.  Interesting piece. 

As a civilian made, private purchase item, I'd hazard the guess that virtually any style of button from the era could be used.  The illustrations in Osprey's books on the era usually show brass buttons, but that could just be the color preferences of the guy who colored it in.

[Kent Shootwell]

Corporal Daniel Ryan pictured in "The U.S. Army in the West,1870-1880" sports a double breasted miners shirt. It's buttons look to be the same shade and texture as the cloth. They don't seem to have any shine to them.

[St. George]

That's because they don't - they're 'civilian' buttons and not military - and unlike the 'John Ford Reference Library' - troopers of the time frame didn't customize their uniforms to suit their individual tastes - that means none of the epaulets and sleeve rank on the shirts he was so fond of - your men would know who you are - you, and every NCO and Officer in their Regiment...

If a shirt was shelf-purchased, it was because it was seen to be more durable that what was issued.

The 'shield' was no more popular than any other pull-over style - it's just been depicted more often in movies and thus, more associated with military use.

McChristian's 'The U.S. Army In the West' will show you the basic uniforms and equipage - keep in mind that the Army was using up the vast supplies left over from the Civil War, and the fact that the Frontier Army served well as a sort of 'dumping ground' for all that poor-quality wool and leather for a long time afterwards.

Some of the Osprey plates show Campaign clothing - notably hats - pay attention to those, because it took a long time before the Army came to grips with decent headgear.

Some of your clothing can come from the reenactor side - look at the Civil War reenactment sites and sutlers to see about sizes and if there's anything used that'll fit - used is good.

Remember - with the exalted rank of Sergeant Major, the closer you would fit into Army Regulations, because 'you' would exemplify them to the rank and file, so be careful in what you select.

Scouts Out!

[hp246]

Good information all.  Thank you for the responses.

[Pitspitr]

St. George is steering you in the right direction.

+1 on the recommendation of Doug McChristian's books. I'd also recommend Army Blue and More Army Blue by Lagilier (sp?)

As a Sgt. Major you're going to be more or less rubbing elbows with your Col. and his staff. If your Col. is a guy like George Crook, you might get away with wearing a lot of non regulation items, but if he's a guy like George Custer or Nelson Miles you better forget it.

[1961MJS]

Have a couple of questions about Indian Wars era enlisted (Sgt. Major) Cavalry uniform.

1.  What are acceptable colors for hat.  I understand originally they were dark blue or black, but have seen depictions of a tan hat.  Would the tan hat be acceptable for enlisted or were they officer only?

2.  What would have been the proper buttons for a bib shirt?  Wood? Brass?  Other?

Thanks.

Hi, no one ever answered the second question.  I have a nice navy bib shirt, but the buttons are almost certainly not correct for the time period between 1850 and 1930...  I like the shirt, it's twill (I think), but would like to be as correct as I can.

If I don't change the buttons out, I guess I could go the whole John Ford route and get some Sky Blue spandex pants and put epaulets on it.



Later

[St. George]

Buttons of the time were most likely hard rubber - those are easily found.

They can be plain metal, 'japanned' metal and embossed metal as well - there are a number of books on period clothing available at your local Public Library that will show these things in great detail.

Scouts Out!

[Niederlander]

If you get on e-bay and search for the right size black plastic buttons, you will find some that look very similar to the old hard rubber buttons.  I believe the reproduction Sears 1895 and 1902 catalogs have good pictures of buttons, as well.

[Grenadier]

http://www.thebuttonbaron.com/

[Pay Dirt Norvelle]

Grenadier beat me to it, but the Button Baron will more than likely have whatever you need.  The are a great outfit.

[hp246]

You guys are the best.   Learn a lot every time I look at this site.

[1961MJS]

Buttons of the time were most likely hard rubber - those are easily found.

They can be plain metal, 'japanned' metal and embossed metal as well - there are a number of books on period clothing available at your local Public Library that will show these things in great detail.

Scouts Out!

Thanks, I'll take a look.  That may take some wandering, nothing like that in the old west section (that I noticed so far).

Later

[St. George]

Look at 'costuming' and 'Victorian Era Dress' and follow the advice given earlier - talk to your Librarian about what you're looking for.

Scouts Out!