New cylinder? Accuracy issues

[will52100]

I've got a beautiful 45 colt single action that at best does 6" groups at 20 yards.  The barrel is .451-.452 and the chamber mouths are .457-.458.

Where can I get a new cylinder fitted and tuned properly?  And how much?

As an aside, my normal load is a .454 bullet, and with clones I normally get 2.5-3" groups at that range, black powder or smokeless.  On the other hand the nicest uberti I've got doesn't compare to the crisp feel and handling of the colt, nor in the looks department.  I'd just like to bring the accuracy up a bit.  If need be after a new cylinder I can load .452 bullets.

Thanks

[yahoody]

Best fix I've found is send Dave Lanara (or someone else capable) a .44 Special or smaller cylinder and have him re-bore and re-chamber it to proper .45 dimensions and cut it for a bushing if required.  Luck of the draw what you'll get from Colt.  Although .457/ 58 is pretty dismal.  I had Dave re-chamber a 44 Special to a .45 for me recently and it turned a pretty boat anchor gun into a decent six gun.

I'd also make sure the forcing cone is cut properly.  .454s (instead of  .451 or .452) are common fodder in Colt's to get them to shoot.     

[Sagebrush Burns]

I'm thinking that if 6" groups at 20 yards is the it will do, there are issues beyond just oversize cylinder throats.

[will52100]

The gun is otherwise tight, so not sure what the other issues could be aside from possibly reaming the forcing cone.  I'll check into sending it off to Dave Lanara, or others.

Thanks.

[tseaha]

Will,
Welcome to the club. I recently purchased a 2014 Colt SAA, .45 Colt.   Cylinders throats a perfect  .457. The only lead bullets I could get to shoot were .454s from Oregon Trail. They were actually .456. There seems to be a dearth of cylinders smaller that .45 Colt available, in my opinion, because the turds at the Colt factory are sending anything out with out proper inspections or their  attorneys are telling them to make the cylinders  large because of potental liability issues. Either way the consumer is getting screwed.  Robert Sears noted firearms expert told me, when we both worked at NRA, that the death of the gun industry came at the end of WWII when many of the gun manufacturers hired former executives from the auto industry. The Departments of "Quality Assurance" became Depatments of "Quality Control".  Bob was working for Ithaca at the time when the new Head of "Quality Control" told him that he was going to make the worst gun the consumer would accept. ( A standard long kept by the US auto industry.) Seems that Colt possibly still has some of these auto industry minded supervisors working for them. It is a real shame. My Uncle worked for Colt from 1932 to 1972 as a Master Assembler and would have never let some of the pieces of crap off his bench, the likes of which we are seeing today. WAKE UP COLT or you'll be looking for bankruptcy protection from the Federal Courts. 

[Sagebrush Burns]

I just measured three of my 3rd gen 45s and the cylinder throats averaged .456.  I consistently shoot 3" to 4" groups with them at 25 yards and my friend who is a much better shot than me consistently shoots them into 2".  Once, when the gods smiled and I held my pinkie just so I put two consecutive cylinders full into 1".  Bet your a$$ I kept that target.

[yahoody]

Nice try Mr. Burns.

No picture?

...it never happened

[yahoody]

Likely you have done all of this/thought about it prior but worth mentioning I think for others.

I drop the right caliber bullets into each chamber to see if the cylinder will hold all six and to see if there is any difference in chamber mouth sizes by how far the bullet nose protudes.  Gives you an idea of how accurate the gun might be.

My new 3rd gen. Colt's generally won't hold a .452" but will a .454".

Other thing I notice in my pairs of guns....groups can really depend on the shape/ contour of the front sights.  Colt by far the worst at this as well.  I have several pairs that the front sights were no where close to even being the same height let alone a contour on the front of the blade that is conducive to accurate shooting.  Nickel guns/front sights make all that it even worse with the light reflection/change in just one shooting session.

[Sagebrush Burns]

Nice try Mr. Burns.

No picture?

...it never happened

The target is in Colorado and I'm in Arizona right now.  I'll try to remember to take pics and post when I head back north.

[yahoody]

Just joshing you of course,  Sagebrush.  10 to 12 rounds into an inch at 25 yards is some great shooting!  Congrads.

[Sagebrush Burns]

It was a once in a lifetime group.  Still, I'm proud to have done even that once.

[Sagebrush Burns]

Here is the target I was bragging about.  It was 50 feet not 25 yards, but I'm still happy with it.  Wish I could shoot like that more often...

[yahoody]

Nice target!  "NF" stand for a New Frontier by chance?

[Sagebrush Burns]

Yes sir, New Frontier.

[yahoody]

Wondered how his all turned out?  Better groups?  And if so how?

[will52100]

Haven't had time to send it to anyone.  Will try and see if I can get it sent off sometime this week.

On a side note a buddy came by and we did a bit of shooting.  He had a Colt Cowboy.  Horrible action trigger pull and grip fit compared to my Colt, or even my ubertie's, but with .454 loads didn't do too bad.

[Coffinmaker]

Optimum for your barrel are cylinder throats at .4525 or .453.  Then shoot bullets sized to the throats.  Another thing I would have looked at would be running a range rod down the barrel and see if the cylinder lines up correctly with the bore.  If the cylinder indexes off to one side, accuracy won't be happening regardless.

With a gun such as you describe, a new cylinder is in order.  Until you have a correct cylinder, chasing reasonable accuracy will be a waste of time.

Coffinmaker

[rickk]

Before doing all that expensive work, have you tried a .456 or .457 bullet?

Rick

[tseaha]

Whoa ... Unfortunately, it looks  like I was a bit prophetic with my bankruptcy prediction, above.