38WCF Winchester brass problem

Mike · February 04, 2015, 06:23:27 PM

I have 100 38WCF factory loaded rounds, fired 20 sized and decaped. The primers are crimped, why??
OK I swaged the pockets with RCBS pocket swager, still tight. Used Federal Large Pistol
Any ideas

Ranch 13 · February 04, 2015, 10:51:01 PM

Don't know why they crimped those primers, but it sure surprises a feller the first time you try to reload them

WRA really put a crimping on, it's a bugger to get those cases primer pockets cleaned up enough to keep from wrecking new primers.

Mike · February 05, 2015, 02:57:04 AM

The only reason I can come up with is, the load is a very light load and the primers may back out with out the crimp???
There is no other reason to crimp them.

wildman1 · February 05, 2015, 05:31:37 AM

Use the CASE CHAMPHERING tool in the primer pocket first then the primer pocket tool. That will give you a small bevel in the primer pocket mouth and the primers will go in correctly. wM1

Ranch 13 · February 05, 2015, 08:45:28 AM

No those factory loads weren't light loads, so the primer backing out due to that wouldn't be the problem.

Mike · February 05, 2015, 07:08:05 PM

Ok,
I have swaged and used the champer tool, fed primers are to big so am getting some Winchester primer next week.
loads I fired are very light loads in my 73 carbine.
So why would the crimp the primers???

Litl Red · February 06, 2015, 08:51:56 AM

So why did they crimp the primers?

Only they (and possibly The Shadow) know for sure. But mfg's don't do extra work for the hell of it. That cartridge has almost no market so it's really baffling. Heck, it's a puzzle why they made any at all.

Can you think of any place at all that might be buying 38-40s? And can anyone think of why there would be a single shooter asking for crimped primers?

Would it possibly be that they had a production problem the crimp solved? Like their worn out dies were making primer pockets a touch too loose?

Ranch 13 · February 06, 2015, 09:01:30 AM

Crimping primers in the 38 wcf is just the way of the world. As I said earlier I've got once fired cases from WRA (Winchester repeating Arms for the unwashed) those cases are crimped, as are the Remington, Peters, and Western (before it was Winchester western).
So my guess is it's something left over from when the cartridge saw a lot of law enforcement use.

Mike · February 06, 2015, 12:43:23 PM

Law enforcement could be the reason, but the pockets are still tight once the crimp is removed.
Guess we will never know.
Thanks

Coal Creek Griff · February 06, 2015, 01:19:08 PM

I'm sure you've thought of this, but could they be sized for small primers? If you've swaged and chamfered and they're still too tight for LP primers, that's what I'd check.

CC Griff

w44wcf · February 06, 2015, 04:14:07 PM

Mike,
What is the headstamp? I've got a fair number of .38 W.C.F. and .38-40's in my cartridge collection and none of them have crimped in primers as far as I can tell.

w30wcf

Mike · February 06, 2015, 11:13:03 PM

Here they are new box of 50 38WCF.

wildman1 · February 07, 2015, 05:09:29 AM

I have several different calibers that I load that have crimped primers. When the primers are crimped the brass moves inward not just on the top of the pocket. The primer pocket cleaning tool will leave the pocket still a touch too small for primer insertion. Take the tool fully inserted into the primer recess and turn it while holding it off to the side as you rotate the case. Do that for a couple of revolutions and it should accept the primers more easily. I have found Winchester primers (LP) to be more inconsistent in size than Federals. wM1

Mike · February 07, 2015, 12:19:02 PM

All good
Still ould like to know why they are crimped in the first place

I am fireing the cases today and then going to re do the primer pockets and get some Winchester LP primers as these fit the best in the worked pocket

w44wcf · February 07, 2015, 12:32:35 PM

Mike,
Thank you for the pic. Hmmmm....I haven't seen that before on .38-40 cartridges. I have a box of . 44-40's in the same style box and the primers are not crimped in.

Perhaps that lot of brass had the primer pockets on the upper tolerance limit and they were using primers with the minimum od tolerance and decided to crimp them to make sure that they stayed in place(?).

w44wcf

Blair · February 07, 2015, 12:54:38 PM

To all,

This primer "pocket crimping" you all are talking about.... how is this crimping done?

I have seen a lot of Military primed ammo that used a "detent/stippling" around the outer edge of the primer pocket to make it difficult to remove the primers. This would make it hard to remove for reloading.
My best,
Blair

Mike · February 07, 2015, 09:15:25 PM

Guys I may have been given the answer today, a friend of mine who has vast experance in the munitions world looked at them and said that Winchester must of left the crimp part of the machine on after doing a run of blanks used in nail guns.
He is going to ream the pockets out once I have fired the two boxs I have.
Should keep the one complete box for later collecting.

Thanks for all the input.