Tried Black Powder for the First Time- A Couple of Questions

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

A buddy of mine picked up a couple of pounds of Hodgdon black powder at a garage sale for a couple of bucks per can, so I thought I'd try it. One was Pyrodex Select FFG and the Other Triple 7 FFG.

I tried it tonight in my 4 3/4" Uberti .44 Specials loading a 220 gr. RNFP and a 260 gr. SWC, both cast  I used a Lee 1.6 cc dipper for both powders which filled the cases about 3/16" from the mouth.

  With the Select, velocities ran around 750 fps with the 220 gr. and 720 with the 260 gr. I didn't try them for accuracy.

  With the Triple 7, velocities were much higher running a hair over 900 fps with the 220 gr. RNFP and a solid 850 fps with the 260 gr. I tried the second load for accuracy and was very impressed. I fired three 5 shot groups from a sitting position at 25 yds. and most of the 15 shots went into a ragged 2" group.

   My questions:
  The bullets were lubed with my normal "hard" lube. It's my understanding a soft lube will keep the powder fouling soft and easier to clean. Right? With the exception of the last 15 consecutive shots, I would clean the barrel every 10 shots by running a brush wrapped with bronze wool down the bore and in the chambers.

  How corrosive to metal is this powder? After all shooting was complete, I cleaned the chambers and the barrel with a Windex type glass cleaner, dried them and applied a light coat of Hoppes #9. The exterior however, I didn't mess with. Will the coating of fouling on the exterior of the revolver eventually cause rust? If so, how soon could this be a problem? (Our humidities are running in the 30 - 40% range)

Thanks for any help!

Cholla

[hellgate]

The Pyrodex is gonna be your problem. Do not leave any fouling on the gun from Pyro, it is as if not more corrosive than real black powder. Wipe it off and oil please. The 777 is more corrosive to brass than steel. So any cartridge cases not soaked and cleaned will get a turquoise verdigris on them in a few days. ThePyro is less corrosive to brass but still needs cleaning & removal. The 777 can use any bullet lube you want including the hard wax smokeless types. The Pyrodex needs a real BP lube with lots of beeswax based lube (beeswax+ olive/peanut/canola oil/lard/tallow/lanolin/etc.). If I were you I'd stick to the 777 and use commercial bullets. Your gun will shoot all day with it. With Pyro you will need a BP lube and lots of it and the residue is highly corrosive to the gun and less so to the brass. 777 is the opposite but easier to clean up and less fouling.

Actually you really did not try real black powder. The Pyro is pretty close though. 777 is almost like a smokeless powder that smokes.

[Cliff Fendley]

Actually what you have there is not black powder but rather black powder substitutes.

From my experience Pyrodex is horrible stuff and wont shoot it in my guns. I've had them rust over night from shooting my gun to empty it after muzzleloader hunting and waiting to clean it the next morning. Your experience may be different with your low humidity. Years ago I bought in to the sales hype that is was cleaner and easier to clean up and less corrosive than real black powder. BS. I gave away about 5 pounds of pyrodex.

I still wouldn't take a chance and would wipe down and clean every spec of that gun to remove the Pyrodex residue and oil it good with something like clenzoil.

I've noticed triple 7 is not nearly as bad. I've recently shot some APP and really like the way it cleans up.

You can pretty much get by with normal lubed bullets with the triple7. If you go to real black powder you will need a bp compatible lube.

If you can't get real BP I would stick with triple7 or APP.

[Fingers McGee]

Hellgate and Cliff wouldn't steer you wrong.

I'll third the recommendation to ditch the Pyrodex and stick with the T7.  It will clean up with plain water.  Lubing and wiping the gun down with Balistol afterwards will keep it looking and running smooth.

[pony express]

+3 on what the others have said. I still have several pounds of Pyrodex, from the days when Wal Mart used to mark it down drastically after the deer season was over. Only thing I'll use it in is a double barrel shotgun for CAS shooting, on those occasions I shoot  in a shotgun class. And even then it gets cleaned with lots of soapy water the day it's used, and then checked a few days later. Never in a cartridge revolver, there's just too many nooks and crannies to clean. Since you've already used it, on hint: Be sure you got ALL of the residue out of the ejector rod housing, that's a favorite hiding place for it!

[Cliff Fendley]

I've never found anyone that likes Pyrodex and with the better products in their line it really amazes me that Hodgdon still even offers Pyrodex.

[Lefty Dude]

I had a pound of Pyrodex from long ago. I loaded it in my brass shot shells, worked fine. That's all it is good for.

My preference for a Sub is APP. I buy it by the case. I use Goex BP in the shot shells.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Thanks for all the advice, guys.

[Noz]

Go ahead and use the Pyrodex if you already have it but be aware of the cleaning problems.  You really can't be sloppy with it.
777?  I would use only as a last resort. I don't like it.

APP is the easiest to use and gives adequate performance of all of the substitutes.

Real black is easier to use, easier to clean up and nothing booms or smokes like it.

[Slowhand Bob]

 if shooting SASS, my favorite is APP because it loads quite well through an auto press.  I have always heard that 777 was a slightly hotter sub, designed for primary use with hunting rifles??  Never bought but one bottle of Pyrodex and quickly figured out that it was not for me and gave most of it away.  I have heard it said that the only reason Pyro made it was because of the storage laws that had been passed early on.  It was suggested that Pyro be dropped and Pinnacle be kept back when GOEX was bought out by whoever but the new owner insisted that Pyrodex was the superior product in the marketplace!!!  Actually we have had a couple of really good subs come and go through the years but I think that the market just will not support more than one good one at a time! (Thanks to being first, Pyro has a locked in market of fokes who have never tried anything else) The up side is that real black powder is still tops if you are not reloading through a machine.  My dbl shotguns, buffler guns and cap guns all still use the real bp.   Just my opinions and they are often questionable.

[Abilene]

...Real black is easier to use, easier to clean up and nothing booms or smokes like it.

Or flames!  Don't forget the flame!   

[Cliff Fendley]

Or flames!  Don't forget the flame!   

+1 gotta have the flame!

[litl rooster]

I've never found anyone that likes Pyrodex and with the better products in their line it really amazes me that Hodgdon still even offers Pyrodex.

Ditto

[hellgate]

"I've never found anyone that likes Pyrodex and with the better products in their line it really amazes me that Hodgdon still even offers Pyrodex."

I think 'cause it's relatively cheap and available everywhere. Also I like it because it still booms like real gunpowder so I'll use it in the shotgun when I find a bargain on it. In the C&Bs I too often get delayed ignition (paBOOM instead of just BOOM). If I can pick it up for less than 10 bucks a jar then I'll buy it.

[Cuts Crooked]

I've used pyrodex in muzzle loaders and was happy with it. However, as noted, be meticulous with yer cleaning and do it as quick as possible after shooting. Only used it once in shot shells, and it did fine.

[brazosdave]

I dunno, i've shot nothing but the Holy Black for over a year or two now, but in the past i shot the heck out of Pyrodex and never had an issue with it.  Still got a lb of it in a storage locker.  Trip 7 was the first powder i shot, mainly because it was the only one the store had.  It worked fine for me too, and i still got some of that.  I just enjoy the smoke and smell of the real black powder better, so that's what i stick with now.  For me, half the fun is the way the smoke and smell make me feel like i'm going back in time.