Smoothing the action on Win 1886

[Logan]

I have a new Win 1886 in 45-70 made by Chiappa.  It is a beautiful gun (and 9 lbs) but the action is pretty stiff.  Are there parts in the action that I can polish to smooth it out?  The trigger is not bad and it is adjustable.

Also, has anyone come across a video on the disassembly of the 1886?

Thanks

[wildman1]

Try stevespages.com   I believe there are gun manuals there. wM1

[Red Cent]

The 1886 functions somewhat like the Marlin and the Winchester 92 and 94. The lever pulls down locking bars while pushing the bolt to the rear. If you can dis-assemble and re-assemble the 86, work the action quite a bit and tear down.
When I work on the 73s, I use a tool like this:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=electric+sanding+tool&id=641DDB59A5A2642A8F4450D9FEE8341729491859&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=641DDB59A5A2642A8F4450D9FEE8341729491859&selectedIndex=0

I use contact adhesive to attach 800 grit paper to the device. When you see a wear mark, sand/polish. People will tell you not to remove metal but 1/1000th will not make a difference other than the front and back of the locking bars. Simply polish these surfaces.

Cycle the action before you start. Don't drop the hammer. Cycle it again. You will have discovered the most difficult part to overcome/adjust in a pump or a lever gun. The main spring.

The original 1886s use a leaf spring. The Browning made 1886 uses a coil spring. I am not familiar with the Chiappa main spring. If it is a leaf spring, you can tune the spring by hour glassing the spring. If you reload and take advantage of Federal primers, you can take lot off the strength of the spring.

You can cut the coil spring. I would think two coils would make a world of difference and still set off any thick skinned primer.

I can feel some shudders from some in the audience.

[Logan]

  With a liberal amount of oil applied, I've been working the action and I can already tell a difference.  The main spring, a leaf spring,  is the main force to overcome and I will look at lightening it a bit.

Thanks for the info.

[Red Cent]

I use a grinder on leaf springs. Put a bowl of cold water beside the grinder. Make the flat rectangular spring into an hour glass with long smooth curves. Bring the curve out to the edge about an inch before you get to the screw hole. About the same on the other end.  Little by little dipping the spring in the water after each pass. Rule of thumb is that you can remove no more than quarter of the total width from each side at the smallest point.

When the shape is attained, it is necessary that you clean any and all scratch/grind marks. Down to a mirror shine. Any cracks will cause failure.

Probably can use a trick used back a couple hundred years ago. Cut a small square of leather and punch a hole in the center the size of the screw holding the spring. Place the leather between the spring and the frame and tighten. This will change the geometry and lessen the pressure of the spring on the hammer. Used a lot years ago on Colt  handguns.

[Logan]

All good info.  Thank you.

[Marshall John Joseph]

I have one.  It is one of the most beautiful rifles ever.  It levers horribly, usually on the third stroke, hammer down on each lever, it will bust your knuckles, for real.. I sent it back to Chiappa when they just moved to their new location and they had it for 2 1/2 months and gave me the runaround.  I had them send it back no worse then when I received it.  About a month ago, I emailed Chiappa, complaining; I thought I was emailing the factory in Italy.  I got Chiappa in Ohio again, and the asked me to return it to them, on their dime, and would put it at the head of the list for their gunsmith.   Was told it was on its way back - they changed the carrier out.  I will let you know if there is any improvement.

I was warned about the poor customer service and was reluctant to send it back a second time.  But they were true to their word and got on it right away.  I have my fingers crossed.  Mine is a 24" octagon barrel, full color case hardened receiver.  Wood to metal fit is impeccable.  I have four other Chiappas, three 92's in various calibers and a lever shotgun.  All gorgeous and smooth.  Oh, I forgot.  I just got a Chiappa Mares Laig 9" pistol in 45 LC.  Another beauty.

Now, if only that 86 comes back fixed.

MJJ

[Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks]

Logan-
Go to the 1876 Forum and on page 5 I wrote a fairly lengthy report the subject: The Chiappa 1886 Winchester 45-70 (Puma). The article is dated August 2012.  My article goes into a lot of detail on how to make the Chiappa '86 lever more easily.  I will tell you up front... the task is not for the faint hearted. Here is a link with pictures and instructions...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?12302-Fieldstripping-The-Winchester-Miroku-1886-Tutorial

Even though this is for a Miroku it will work for the Chiappa.  When my rifle came to me ROB it was the hardest to lever than any of the lever actions I have ever bought. The '86 has more parts than the Rossi '92 and the action is more complicated than the '92.  It took me a while to get mine working very smooth... but I will tell you now that just oiling and levering the rifle will not make it smoother. Rather than repeat myself... read my posts on the '76 Forum... ifn you have questions contact me via my email address... tjbynum@hotmail.com.  Will help you anyway I can.

[Red Cent]

Holy moly. Forget I suggested dis-assembling the rifle.

[Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks]

RC-

I was not trying to be a SA on my post to Logan. The Chiappa ''86 ROB with the Chiappa manual, does not explain or go into any detail on dis-assembly or assembly. That is why I posted the link for that. The '86's action is similar to the '92 but it is different and it has a carrier hook that can be very frustrating to get it reassembled. I was only trying to be helpful in regards to Logan's initial post. I only wish that making the Chiappa's '86 action work was as simple as working on a '92, which it is not. Sorry you took my posting in the wrong light... my apologies.  Horn

[Red Cent]

Oh no! Apologies are not necessary for I did not take the post that way.

I couldn't believe what was required to completely tear down the 1886. I would have to start early in the day and sneak a swallow of Dickel to calm down the nerves. The Marlin is a cinch compared to the 1886.

No problem at all Horn.

[wildman1]

I have done it with an original '86 and it does take some time and effort. wM1

[Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks]

RC-

Good.  When I bought my Chiappa '86 no one here (on the '76 Forum) had never posted info on doing an action job on the '86... I contacted several of the cowboy smithies to see if they had worked on them... they all said no, and they would not accept them. Sooo, I did an internet search for how to dis-assemble, since the owners manual does not cover this.  After seeing how to disassemble I then realized why no one does it... it is not complicated, but it can be frustrating. I will give Chiappa credit in their copy of the Winchester '86, theirs is almost an exact copy of the original with exception of the locking lugs. It took me several breakdowns to get where I was totally comfortable in doing it. Mine is "slick" now, almost too slick, but it took a lot of work, did not happen overnight. The rifle is a good shooter so that is a credit to Armi Sport (Chiappa).  Here are a couple of pics of my Chiappa '86 with Kelley Soule Sights.

[Logan]

Thanks Tom for the additional pointers.  There is a good video on you tube on disassembling the 86.  I'm working on the parts now.  The main issue appears to be the mainspring.  Did you hour glass it?

Thanks 

[Red Cent]

I would not think that anyone has a reduced power mainspring for the 1886. Hour glassing the leaf spring may be the only choice.

[Marshall John Joseph]

Just received my Chiappa 1886 back from Chiappa, knuckle busting levering on the third round.  They put in a new carrier.  It seems to lever better, still stiff, but my knuckles are still in tact. Now it's time to put some rounds through it.  However, rifle was returned with a stock screw missing and several scratches around a screw on the case hardened receiver forward of the loading port.  Called immediately but they were closed.  Emailed and am awaiting a response.  What quality control!!!

MJJ

[Red Cent]

I wrap about three or wounds rounds of chamois on my lever. Use the liquid super glue to tack or completely close the end. Chemical action and will actually smoke. Careful it gets hot.

Those leather wraps are a waste in my opinion. Real bad on the back of the fingers.

[Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks]

Logan-

Yes I did hour glass the Main Spring... but I did not hour glass all that much... I thinned the main spring along with some hour glassing and then I polished the Main Spring so that it looks like a chrome bumper that was on cars in the 50's and early 60's. I also reshaped the trigger spring so that the trigger pull was right at 2.5 to 3 lbs of pull, closer to 2.5.  To help make the '86 lever smoother the S-Hook slides fore and aft in the bottom channel of the elevator or cartridge ramp. I would not recommend using your dremal on the bottom channel of the elevator...the dremal will remove TOO MUCH metal. What I did... was use 100 grit emory and work up to 2000 grit in this channel so that the S-Hook slides easily. The pictures below show the working parts of the '86 and where you see arrows in the pics they indicate areas where the action binds.  As I stated previously... this was not an overnight or one day exercise... took me several days of sanding and polishing and then reassembly and dis-assembly and start over till I got the rifle the way I wanted it... believe me, it is not a task for the faint hearted. Pic #1 shows the parts minus the trigger spring and Main Spring. Pic #2 show the Carrier (elevator) Black arrows point to where metal to metal contact is just polish highly. Picture #3 Carrier S-Hook polish highly. Picture #4 The Lever polish highly where the arrows reflect. The bottom channel on the carrier where the S-Hook slides (my rifle) had a lot burrs in the channel. By polishing it along with polishing the S-Hook really helped in making the action more smooth. To my knowledge there are NO REDUCED POWER MAIN SPRINGS for the '86. Ifn you remove TOO MUCH METAL on the Main Spring...the old gal will not fire. Order Extra Main Spring at VTI or Taylor's and Co.  I made the leather butt cover and the leather wrap for the lever, the lever wrap has foam padding inside for cushion.
Hope this helps.

[Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks]

Logan-

Here is a picture showing how I did the Main Spring and the Trigger Spring for the '86.  As you can see I did not do a lot of hour glassing just a wee bit... but I did remove quite abit from the bottom side (the curve by making the Spring thinner). This is remove metal and assemble and see if it will still bust a cap. Remember what you TAKE OFF YOU CANNOT PUT BACK ON...