New Sharps Owner

[Professor Marvel]

AHA! Now that you have identified the british cartridge as a  Westley Richards No 2 musket cartridge  , I can offer some
entertainment value:

here is an image of one
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/8488955/collectible-ammo-for-sale/foreign-rifle/westley-richards-no.2-musket-cartridge

and here is a discussion of the rifles
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8387#.VCUJmlfCbnI

perhaps our own Rattlesnake Jack might chime in ?


yhs
prof (googler) marvel

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

There was mention above to coiled case construction.  I googled to find a good photo. and there are many available.  Then I noticed this hit;

http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Nordenfelt/nordenfeltammuni.html

Of interest is a discussion on the Nordenfelt guns and coiled case ammunition. One of the persons in the discussion was Dr. Gatling himself.  Well worth the read, especially about the quality of copper ore available around Lake Superior.

Why is this interesting?

It took awhile to get from rolled paper cartridges to the drawn brass item we take for granted today. The rolled foil construction was an important step, that came before, or contemporaneously with, drawn copper cases such as the Henry and Spencer.

[Blair]

I have a question.
Were the early .577 Snider cartridges also made with the foil cartridge case bodies?
My best,
Blair

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The first .577 Snider cartridges were foil wraps. Boxer was instrumental in the adoption and received royalties, later being forced to resign from the army. Daw disputed boxer's claim to the invention.

https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/-577-inch-snider/-577-inch-ball-pattern-i-to-v

Boxer was the guy who also invented the Boxer primer. He used the primer body like a pop rivet to join the iron washer rim of a .450 Adams cartridge to a brass tubing body.

https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/-450-revolver

[Blair]

Sir Charles,

Thank you.
I should have realized the evolution.
I have only ever seen the drawn brass Snider cases.
Obviously this is a much more recent design than I had thought.
My best,
Blair

[sail32]

Foil rolled Snider cartridges are a continuation of rolled Enfield cartridges.

Women were paid piece work for rolling paper cartridges and when the Snider-Enfield was adopted the manucacturing method continued using cardboard and then foil.

The early Martini-Enfield cartridges were also rolled.

Snider Enfield cartridges =

britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/16370/Foil-cases#.VCWjVJUtDIU

Canadian Snider ammunition =

http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7372

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I thought there were paper cartridges somewhere, but modified my post when the authority didn't pop up.  Thanks Sail32

[Blair]

I fully understand the development of the Military paper cartridges in both the US and GB during the time period of the ACW.
What had surprised me was how soon the US went to drawn copper/brass cartridge cases and how slow GB was to adopt it.
Perhaps it has to do more with the purity of copper coming out of the Great Lakes area?
I, in all honesty, didn't know that might be an issue?
My best,
Blair

[cpt dan blodgett]

Strange the American invented Berdan primer is used by armies all over the world and the European invented Boxer is what we use here.  Just because we thru out the un-desireables in 1780s does not mean at least one could not come up with a better idea.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Cpt Dan; Boxer was an ENGLISH ordnance officer, not European.  And there was a surprising amount of cross communication of ideas around that time, especially between England and America. (The Scots seem to have gravitated towards Canada more. So much so that there is a widely held belief that "The Scots Invented Canada"!)