What is needed to load .459 bullets into a .45-70?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

HI,

What is needed to load .459 bullets into .45-70 Cartidges?
-I have had the gun swaged; it needs a softer .459.

-I have a new Lee 459-522-3R double bullet mold ...


What else do I need?

[pony express]

Doesn't require anything special to load .459 bullets, just standard reloading dies, plus an expander die made for cast bullets, basically a 3 die set, same as loading pistol ammo.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

WWE; You need to get casting equipment, and lead.  A whole new topic.

Unless you buy already cast bullets and there are several sources. If all you can get is .458, I'd try a hundred or so. You might be surprised.

[john boy]

Ellis - pretty straight forward: a case   - LR primer - 68 to 70 gr of Fg or FFg black powder - compress the powder column 0.2 to 0.3" - a 0.60 fiber or 1/8" felt wad and then seat the bullet

As for expanding the case of a 0.0011 to o.002 neck tension on the bullet use an M die or your compression plug.  Don't crimp the case, just remove the bell on the case

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Sir Chales et al,

.458 was suggested as well as .459 ... Where would I order such bullets?

And secondly, where would I get M Dies to expand the top of the casing or a top or top dies that would fit a .458 or a .459?

Also ... what is the correct terminology for these items?

I am so new and lost to this ...

[pony express]

WWE, if you get a Lyman 3 die set, it includes an "M" die for belling the case neck. I suppose Lee and other 3 die sets are the same. Can only speak for sure about the Lyman, because that's what I have for 45-70. Do you load pistol with cast? If so, it's the same procedure, only bigger. If not, then a good reloading manual or two is in order, I suggest getting the Lyman cast bullet manual, since it deals specifically with loading lead bullets. I only use bullets I cast myself in calibers other than .38 and .45 pistol, so I can't help much with bullet sources.

[Tater Pickens]

Wadd I get my 45-70 bullets, in both .458 and .459, for my 1884 trapdoor from Buffalo Arms. They are soft lead lubed with SPG and my trapdoor loves them.

I use the 500 grn which is the correct bullet for the 84 trapdoor rifle but I believe they offer the 405 grn also.

Hope this helps.

Tater Pickens

[rifle]

Might as well use the new Lee mould you have and cast some bullets. Buffalo Arms sell the 20 lbs. casting pot and the burner for propane and the laddle to dip out the lead and the mould prep for the mould and even the lead(I thunk anyway).
Get a small hammer handle to open the spru plate on the mould and some soft cotton rags to fold for a pad to drop the bullets on and an old spoon to get the dros from the top of the molten lead now and then.

If you don't have a loading press a Lee Classic turret press is a really good one and not way expensive. I have one and like it plenty. Of course you need dies to screw into the loading press and know what order they should screw in so the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a good one to get to look up anything you want to have explained.

A powder scale is good tohave tomaccurately measure powderRCBS have good ones with agate bearings fer the beam and magnetic dampened.

Then to lube the bullets and size them to the correct size and insure they are round a lube sizer is needed.

Vegetable fiber wads are used under the bullet to protect the base of it from the fire of the burning powder.

Sinse even good dies in 45/70 don't load the bullets exactly straight into the case and a slight bulge on one side can be seen if the cases are shny and clean where the base of the bullet is a bullet seater is better than most dies that seat bullets. Meacham Tools and Hardware make and sell really good seaters called "Easy Seaters" that load the bullets in the cases straight. Really straight.

It's a matter of preference whether or not the case is crimped or not. Some believe the case crimped removes lead from the bullet when the bullet comes out. I don't. I believe the case opens(crimp and all) before the bullet moves enough.

A little tool fer chamfering the inside of the case mouth is needed so the edge doesn't remove lead from the bullet when the bullet is seated.

The industry sells dies that size cases and expand the mouth of the cases within a tolerance that is all over the place so....if you want a case mouth a cetain size fer the neck tension on the bullet you want you need a die that has the expander in it interchangeable with expanders of different sizes. Meacham Tool sells dies with different size expander bushings or C&H/4D in Mt. Vernon Ohio sells good ones and you can order the size expander you want. It's important to size the case outh and then expand it backout the right size fer yer bullet. Having the sized case mouth a coupla .001's smaller than the bullet is a good place to start.

Ifin you want to take more time to reload ammo and do it cheaply the Lyman 310 reloading tool is a good one. Don't fergit case sizing lube which ever way you go since sizing the cases needs case size lube to do it.

All this stuff s needed to load either black powder or smokeless powder. A manual to follow is needed either way if yer just startin out.
The Lyman reloading manual is a good one since it shows all about the reloading proceedure. That's the very next thing you should get. That manual.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

WWE;  STOP!  Buy the Lyman book;- Then come back with questions AFTER reading it thoroughly.

Am I still yor pard?

[Blair]

WWE,

I have to agree with Sir Charles, it seems like you are over thinking this.
It is really rather easy once you have actually done it.
It does take some investment and learning on your part.
The only thing, I can think of critical to reloading is the type of powder you chose to use in your reloads
If you would like, I can send you the contact for Pedersoli Information center. You can get direct info from them. You may also find out they produce molds, sizing dies and had lubbers that fit you rifle.
I have always found them to be very helpful.
One can never read too much when it comes to reloading. Buy the Lyman book!
My best,
Blair

[john boy]

And secondly, where would I get M Dies to expand the top of the casing or a top or top dies that would fit a .458 or a .459?

At Track of the Wolf for the plugs used with the Lee Expansion Die
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/226/1/LEE-DIE-45-EX

Since I reload many calibers with different bullet base diameters - I gave up spending 18 to 23 bucks for the Lyman M dies when the TOTW plugs are $3.00

PLUS ... the expander plugs can be used to compress the powder column also instead of buying separate compression dies !

[rifle]

Hey John Boy!
I didn't know(or fergitted) that Lee has different expander plug sizes. Other than standard size expanders that come with new dies?

When I got the C&H/4D expander die and a coupla different size expanders I didn't know anyone else was selling those. No one was back then I thunk.

I can't get to open the site you posted but am going to try again. I have Lee dies fer the 45/70 so may as well get some expander plugs. I have RCBS dies and the Leedies and some different C&H/4D dies.  C&H in Mt.Vernon Ohio will make anything an Hombre wants. A lot is already in stock. I'm lucky sinsce I can drive over there.

Anywhoooo.....since standard dies in the industry have different specs and don't always seat the big bullets actually perfectly straight into the case(sticking a bullet in a hole that's smaller than the bullets). That is why the easy seater by Meacham Tool is good to have since it has the bushing that keeps the bullets straight and go in straight. Only the seaters with the bushings to keep the bullets straight load them straight. You know...actually really straight.


If you look at some factory ammo in 45/70 close enough it's seen that there is a slight bulge at the base of the bullet on one side from the loading (seater) not a close enough  tolerance. Just one place to see that.

It's seen when dies sold and bought by reloaders are used too. When the light is right and the brass is shiny.

I like to put that out there since bullets loaded in the cases straight shoot straighter and there is a variance with the industry dies sold.

The Easy Seater by Meacham Tool has the bushing sized fer what you want and keeps the bullet centered on the case as the case pushes the bushing up and seats the bullet straight since the bullet is always in the bushing as it enters the case.