Sharps Borchardt mystery bayonet

[Doc Neeley]

  I just acquired a really nice Sharps-Borchardt rilfe and it came with a bayonet that appears made for ir but I can't find a reference to a military bayonet (it is a military model). It's driving me crazy. It similiar to an 1873 socket bayonet but it's different (differently shaped cutouts, no 'U.S.', and . Regardless, I love the rifle, but I'd love to be able to place the bayonet with it. The bayonet does fit the rifle and mounts easily. It's  blade is 22".
Any ideas pards? Thanks, Doc 

[JimBob]

Not much info on that bayonet it seems.Some state militia units purchased that model of Sharps,not sure who.The cutout for the sight would be different than a Trapdoor bayonet because of sight base differences and barrel od.Any markings on the rifle that might indicate state purchase?The bayonets may have been contracted for by the purchaser separate from the rifle order.Neither Flayderman's or Seller's book on Sharps mention a bayonet.That's a good score,the military rifles were sporterized a lot later on and they're rather scarce in original military configuration.

[Doc Neeley]

Thanks, sounds reasonable. I know the owner was an elderly Colonel who spent a lot of time in South Ametica and collected guns from all over. My thought was it was sold there and that was the source, but as I said, it's a mystery. 

[JimBob]

That is a hard to find bayonet.No information in the Sharps books that I have found.Went through Kiesling's Bayonets of the World,nada.Outside of a remark in Flayderman's about some were purchased by foreign countries not much on who bought them at all.

[hawkeye2]

    It sounds like it could be a bayonet for a .303 Martini.  These bayonets were quite common and cheap on the market 25 years ago.  They have a blade that is 22" long depending on how you measure it and the socket seems to have been bushed down from the earlier Martini bayonets.  These would have a broad arrow and other markings on the flat top of the blade (just below the end of the muzzle if it were mounted) which may be faint and could have been polished off by over zelous cleaning.

[Hangtown Frye]

Doc;

Both Sharps and Remington offered bayonets for their respective military rifles, but I'm not sure exactly who made them.  I had always assumed that it was an "in-house" kind of deal, but it's possible that they were farmed out to one of the major New England cutlery companies like Ames.  In any event, if the rifle was originally sold to a military organization, it would have come complete with bayonet, as supplied by the manufacturer.  So if your bayonet fits like it was made for it, it probably was!

BTW, there are a LOT of socket bayonets out there that were made in the late-19th Century which look a LOT like the standard Springfield bayonets.  The Martini-Henry, the Peabody-Martini, the Remington Rolling Block and several other military rifles were fitted with bayonets of a surprisingly universal form.  However, since the muzzle dimensions of all of them were just slightly different, while most would "fit" on one another, only the purpose built bayonets would fit well.  So I'm going to make the guess that you have the purpose-built bayonet to go with the rifle, especially if the wear and patina are pretty much the same on both.

Hopefully I can grab a chance to swing by tomorrow and see it! 

Cheers!

Gordon

[Hangtown Frye]

Well folks, I had a chance to check out this Borschardt today, and it's a BEAUTY!  Still has virtually all of the browning on it, with very, very little wear.  No major dings that I could see on the stock either, so it's been very well cared for over the years.  It's not mint, but it sure is nice!  WOW!

Looked closely at the bayonet, and it does have a mark on it that I couldn't decipher, but it's neither a US nor British acceptance mark, so I'm still going with the thought that it's a Sharps-made bayonet.  Certainly fits the rifle well enough!

Anyway, had to brag about it.  One sweet rifle, that's for sure!

Cheers!

Gordon

[JimBob]

Looked closely at the bayonet, and it does have a mark on it that I couldn't decipher, but it's neither a US nor British acceptance mark, so I'm still going with the thought that it's a Sharps-made bayonet.  Certainly fits the rifle well enough!



Gordon

Can you describe the mark or post a picture of it?

[Hangtown Frye]

Can you describe the mark or post a picture of it?

We'll have to see if Doc Neeley can do that for us, as it's in his safe.   

Cheers!

Gordon

[Mogorilla]

At one point in the late 80s, a whole load of South American rifles made their way up here.  (At least in my neck of the woods).  I was young, in college with no $$, so I did not purchase but a store I  frequented had several boxes of trapdoor springfields and sharps rifles sold to South American countries for their military.   The trapdoors were going for $250 each as I recall, 3 for $600.   Idea being between three you had all the parts needed to get one fully functional.  The box we looked at never appeared to have been fired, they were pristine, just caked with old oil.  A good clean would have done wonders.  I recall one of the two having bayonets as well. 

[Doc Neeley]

Here are a few photos of the rifle and bayonet.

[JimBob]

A very nice score on that one Doc.Can you get a close up clear shot of the mark on the bayonet?

[jarmann]

dear doc neeley 
looking for the same mystery bayonet fiitting   same rifle
can you give some messurments of this particular bayonet like: the bore  dia.of the socket ,socket lenght , and lenght from the muzzle to the beginning of the mortice ? so I have a basis to look for
I learned that US socket bayonets allways  fit flush with  the rifles muzzle ?
thank you in advance
greetings from over the pond ( flanders /belgium )
jarmann