Sides

[Red Cent]

I need to figure something out. I asked this on another forum but received little response.

I went to Zack White the other day to buy a couple-three double shoulders in different weights. Picked out three and followed the lady to the wrapping table. There, on the table was a light, light tan piece of almost flawless quality. It was almost twice as long and one half again wider than the shoulders I buy.
It was a "domestic" tanned side. All I know it was beautiful.
Now, I have a "chart" that tells me where the shoulders are, the sides belly, and the others. The lady said that piece contained some belly. I have read some posts/articles that say the belly is too supple for holsters and gun belts. I have read the backs are the thing for belts because of consistency.
I make holsters and gun belts. I make single ply casual belts. Most holsters and gun belts are 8-9 lined with 5-6. The double shoulders are close to the same price they wanted for the side. Maybe .50 cents a square foot more.
I am a little confused trying to word the question. How does one get different weights when buying a side? What are the specific uses for different parts of a side? Why buy a side?

[rdstrain49]

There is more waste with a side, but I use them anyway.  It allows me to use one piece to make holsters, belts, scabbards and what ever else comes along.  The extra length comes in handy from time to time.  The excess scrap is usually no problem as the waste pieces usually find their way into some small project.  I've even made an entire rig for my own use using nothing but scrap pieces, lots of glue and stitching but it worked.

[Cliff Fendley]

When buying my skirting leather from Wickett and Craig I have them cut the belly off and split it to 3-4 oz. I use that for lining, rolled edges and such.

My plain carving leather comes from Thoroughbred and I watch and catch them getting a shipment of 9-10 oz backs and pick through them. Galco and some other big manufactures buy backs and bends from them and those are some good stuff and almost every inch of them are usable.

I cut my belts from the top part of the back. The shoulder area and side is good for the holsters and other projects.

Any other belly leather I use for misc projects or test pieces and I also use a lot of the scrap belly leather to clamp knives or guns in a vice to keep from marring the finish when working on them. The belly leather is also good for the cub scouts to use on learning projects.

[Red Cent]

I will eventually ask Tim, the owner of Zack White but...............how do I get different weights of sides? I can't get over the marked difference between the domestic tanned side and the smaller double shoulders that, I presume, are tanned in Mexico. That side was a blonde, evenly and very lightly tanned all over. 

[Don Nix]

I never buy anything other than sides. And I buy only heavy Skirting leather 12 to 15 oz.It is more economical for me as a Saddler than anything else. I have very little waste.  I cut straps for belts  or such products from the backs where the heaviest leather is as you drop down the side and the leather thins, use that area for you project ,holsters or whatever. Of coarse I use a leather splitter to get the thickness I need or I skive the leather to get the desired thickness. The bellies  are useful for linings .wraps etc.
If your going to be in the leather business ,invest in a good splitter, and a good set of round and head knives  and learn to use them and you'll find you save money in the long run by buying sides.
I've used a lot of domestic and imported sides. Some times you can can some really good leather a reasonable prices and some times the leather can be just nasty.  You have to be careful of "domestic" hides.What that means some times is that the hide came from the US but was tanned in Mexico. And some of that leather can be of poor quality.

[Cliff Fendley]

I will eventually ask Tim, the owner of Zack White but...............how do I get different weights of sides? I can't get over the marked difference between the domestic tanned side and the smaller double shoulders that, I presume, are tanned in Mexico. That side was a blonde, evenly and very lightly tanned all over. 

For the domestic sides W&C will split whatever weight you want for no extra charge. Places like Weaver that carry Herman Oak carry it in all different weights. The leather I get from Thoroughbred I can get from them in different weights also.

Personally I am liking the leather from Thoroughbred the best. They are premium US sides tanned to their spec at the Teneria tannery in Mexico. To my understanding because of all of the EPA restrictions they can not tan leather that way any more in the US. Fortunately I live close to them and can go directly to their warehouse.

[Dalton Masterson]

I use W&C for about everything, and for my needs, I have them split it to 8 oz, which gives me a mostly uniform thickness throughout the entire side, except the belly and some edges/odd spots. I have not had to throw away belly yet, as it is useful for odds and ends, and also for figuring out stamping designs, and for the kids to play on at gun shows.

DM

[Cliff Fendley]

The belly is also good to throw together a project to test and tweak a new pattern.

[Slowhand Bob]

Red, watch for 'gauged evenly throughout' for a little better consistency on the thickness.  If you are able to purchase in person, take a good thickness gauge with you.  As you probably know, some grades at some dealers are not even close on advertised consistencies or even specified weights..   You do not want the little micrometer style scale that only allows about an inch of reach, pretty useless for me.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

The belly is also good to throw together a project to test and tweak a new pattern.

So true. I made one from the worst belly leather to test a pattern. Instead of sewing the main seam, I hammered 5 or 6 of those speedy rivets in to hold it. It worked fine so I made the finished holster. Now I use the pattern proof to hold my pruning shears when I go up in a tree or on a ladder.

[Massive]

"I have read some posts/articles that say the belly is too supple for holsters and gun belts. I have read the backs are the thing for belts because of consistency."


They are usually too damaged, if there is a problem.  They are like fat people.  From behind they could well look smooth and athletic, but from the belly side there can be creases, baggy areas, and stretch marks from the excess weigh they are carrying.

Quality bellies are really good.  I find the bely leather Tandy sells is a hard finish, which is goof for our stuff, but I can only use a small percentage of the bellies for what I do (which does not include selling as yet).  Even though I know the bellies are often good, I don't know if I want it getting around that I use them.  This is a natural material, however, and ultimately quality is determined by me, not some position on a skin, theory.

Of course, a lot of holsters are being made of 5-6 lining material alone, so if you are using two laminated layers, and you judged it as good, it is overkill, structurally.  You can quite easily have 15 ounces there, when the maker of a light holster had 5.  It was also common to have sued as the ling, which is very stretchy, and added nothing.  Of course CAS holsters are comp holsters compared to carry lightweight types, but we are still using a lot of material in them.

Belt wise, if you look at a bag of belts they will be about the same proportion bellies as they are anything else, commercial makers are using bellies.  I get bags of offcuts from a commercial holster maker, and he uses the bellies, but the die marks are spaced out more widely as he works around stuff.  Also for belts, you can't get much over 40 inch waist size from a belly

"I make holsters and gun belts. I make single ply casual belts. Most holsters and gun belts are 8-9 lined with 5-6. The double shoulders are close to the same price they wanted for the side. Maybe .50 cents a square foot more.
I am a little confused trying to word the question. How does one get different weights when buying a side? What are the specific uses for different parts of a side? Why buy a side?"

Sides come in lighter and heavier weights, that is how they sell sides of splits, and patent leathers, etc...

Why use a side?

It is a bigger piece and makes production easier,  You need them to get the long belts off the back, which are not only longer, but some of the best leather.  or even whole skins.

The real answer to getting leather in the correct size is to split it.  As you know, when you buy a hide that is 8-9, that is just the average high end.  Presumably they put it through a knife at that size, but anything smaller came out thinner.  The real solution to consistant access to even splits of the size you want is a splitter."

[Red Cent]

Thanks Massive. $2250.00. Uh huh.

[Massive]

With your volume, no problem.  I'm sure that is just a starting price, you can work some magic with Steve.