44-40 Rifle und Revolver; 30-30; .303 British; .30 Carbine und 8x57IS

[Palatine Tom]

Dear all,

I would like to reload the following caliber for 100 yards target shooting with lead bullets and nitro powder:

44-40 Rifle und Revolver; 30-30; .303 British; .30 Carbine und 8x57IS

Any advice which nitro powder i can use for all of these calibers?

thanks you for your kind help

Tom

[Angel_Eyes]

If you are looking for one nitro powder to do all these calibres you will have to get a collection of all the separate makers load tables and troll through them but I think you need to be looking at which powder will suit each calibre best.

Your 44-40 rifle and revolver load can be the same, I use 6gr of Unique.
The .303 and the 8mm may be similar for power, (41gr of Vectan SP7), but I have never loaded the other two.

I would emphasize checking with manufacturers recommendations to keep yourself safe.

[PJ Hardtack]

Acquire as many reloading manuals as possible. Taking anyone's recommendations for a load can be folly. Offering the advice is not a good idea from a liability point of view.

There are no 'magic bullets' and no 'magic loads'. You need to do your own experimenting to see what works in your guns for you.
Gun writers make a living out of sharing their data and they always include a disclaimer in their writings.

Any number of powders work in all the calibres you listed and you may or may not be able to find some of them in your area as a result of the hoarding going on.

[Blair]

P T,

You maybe able to find one powder that will work in all the cartridge calibers you are seeking.
That one powder may not allow you the best potential performance these various cartridges have to offer.
As has been suggested, do the research needed to optimize the various powder performance for each cartridge cal. has to offer you within the arms you wish to use them in.
There is no one easy powder fix to fit all applications within the smokeless world.
Just a thought on my part.
Blair

[Cliff Fendley]

I just have to ask what does it hurt to buy an extra type of powder or two considering if you do any shooting at all one bottle is not going to last long anyway?

One of the main reasons I handload is to be able to taylor my loads for different guns, you'll never get the best performance in all those using one powder, you might find one that will safely go bang and send lead downrange but that's probably about it.

Powder doesn't go bad if stored properly so you don't have to use it up right away.

You might find that half the fun is trying different things in different guns to see what works best.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I can't help myself!   I'll have to say something.

A lot depends on what you want to do with all those diverse cartridges. Also, it depends on the available powders in your market. I have many powders I can use here in Canada, but my Son, who lives in England has fewer choices and often ends up with a narrow selection of Vihtavouri powders. (BTW: spellcheck thought I wanted tambourine powders!)

If you want to plink and send bits of greasy lead downrange on a sunny afternoon, then that suggestion of UNIQUE as a single powder can work, but it requires judicious load selection. Loading data for all these calibers is available, but is not in widespread circulation. I use an old Lyman cast bullet handbook printed almost 40 years ago.

If you want service/hunting level loads, then you need at least two separate powders. Keep the unique or some other pistol powder for the pistol length cartridges and another in the medium rifle powder range.  For that, it would not be difficult to research loading data and find one powder that results in reasonable loads for the .30-30, .303 Brit, and 8mm JS. I said "at least two" powders as midrange lead bullet loads, and full power jacketed bullet loads may need different powders.

[Professor Marvel]

My Good Palatine Tom -
I agree with Sir Charles, I find that 2 smokeless powders can cover most of what I need. I like Unique for shotshells and pistol cartridges and I settled on 4895 for rifle cartridges. I will use 2F and 3F blackpowder in anything except bottleneck rifle cartridges.

I would highly recommend at least two different handloading loading manuals - I have the Lyman and Speer, and it is really past time for me to get new versions.

here are some links that might be useful:

Auf English

www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20Basic%20Manual.pdf

Vihtavuori Reloading Guide
pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/vihtavouri.pdf‎

Auf Deutsch
Lapua
http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data

http://www.lhs-germany.de/pulververtrieb/ladedaten-download/

http://www.lhs-germany.de/pulververtrieb/fachliteratur/ladedaten/

http://www.lhs-germany.de/pulververtrieb/fachliteratur/wiederladebuecher/

Since you are in Munich, here are two German clubs who might be able to help you

www.sass-germany.de
www.german-regulators.de

Happy St Nicholas Day, and watch out for the Krampus

Grüß
prof marvel

[Crow Choker]

Ditto's to what all have posted about no one powder for all calibers, BUT, there are a few powders that will work for your calibers in question, BUT, as stated, you will have to search load manuals and powder companies load recommendations for it to work. As posted, it all depends on what type of velocity and bullet performance your after. I have somehow over the last close to forty years of reloading amassed and tried a lot of powders. Some I have continued to use, some I've never used again. If I were to reload the many rifle and pistol calibers I reload, I could get it down to maybe three (Unique, 2400, 5744, but I'd miss H4895 and Varget and Red Dot, would have to toss in Win 748 for .223, like IMR4227 too), then I have my favorite 45 acp powder Titegroup. I've already gone past my three, hard to toss some out.

An interesting article in the American Rifleman some years back by C.E. Harris was titled something like this "The 13.0 grain Red Dot Loading". In it, C.E. Harris penned on how to load a number of bottleneck rifle loads using 13.0 grains of Red Dot using lead bullets. I loaded and tried a number of loads using cast bullets for 303 British, 8mm Mauser, and 30/06. All performed fine, had good accuracy out to 100-150 yards. Played around going up to 13.5 one grain at a time, all worked. None of the loads were 'barn burners', just pleasant, accurate shooting loads. Being Red Dot is an excellent pistol powder (have loaded 100's of 45 Colt with it, excellent results), it could possibly work in your 44/40 with the right powder weight. 30 Carbine using Red Dot, you'd have to check it out. I tried to find the article by Harris, but it's hiding in a box somewhere.

Using cast bullets in the 303 British, 8mm Mauser, 30/06, and 7.62x54 Russian, I've had excellent results with Acc. 5744. I've also used IMR 4227 and Alliant 2400 in reduced loads for these calibers (along with the Red Dot). Unique is properly named as I've used it for 357, 45 Colt, 44 Spec, and 44 Mag handgun rds. There are rifle loads on paper using Unique, although I've never tried any. Mike Venturino highly recommends Acc 5744 for cast bullet bottleneck handloads. It wouldn't be a handgun powder, but could be used for your rifle loads and have a 2nd powder for revolver such as Unique.

As always stated by responders to questions regarding primer, powder, and bullet selection, do your homework. Ask veteran handloaders(which you've done), read reloading manuals, powder company handouts and websites, etc. The new 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is almost a must for using lead bullets. I love to reload as much as shootin'! Hope this helps ya! Crow Choker

[Coal Creek Griff]

If you do a Google search for "CE Harris the load", you'll find online copies of the article.

CC Griff

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

You can do much the same as with RED DOT with most of the shotgun/pistol powders within the span of relative burning rates from Red Dot to Herco.  I have used several of them this way (BUT referring to my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for corroboration) For .30-30 about 7 - 9 grains makes great small game loads while 7 x 57, .308, .303 Br., 8 x 57, etc can use about 9 - 12 grains.

I don't have a .30 carbine, but most powders in this range have listed pistol data

[Crow Choker]

Coal Creek Griff (gotta be a story behind that name), thanks for the suggestion of Googlin' CE Harris "The Load". Never thought of doing it. Did think about going to the NRA website and see if I could find it per chance by searching prior issues of the American Rifleman if possible. As soon as I saw that you had written "The Load", my memory was racked and I remembered the article title. My stab at it was in the bleachers in left field. Went online and found a wealth of info ref "The Load", plus other military and rifle loadings using shotgun/pistol type powders as Sir Charles posted. Got me all "riled up" (didn't even have a Cuban cigar, ie from 'Open Range') to load up some military type calibers using other powders besides Red Dot. Have to dig out my issue, think it dates back to 93/94.

[Palatine Tom]

Dear all,

thank you for your valuable hints so far.

The idea/reason for "only"one powder is because here we have a limit of powder quantity allowed at home (safety reasons which i do accept). +2 container of powder are going over that limit

I agree - to be perfect i have to have many powder types means many containers...

My start is now trail boss for a.m. calibers, this should be a safe ground for testing, what do you think?

Worst case i use black powder ;-))

regards

Tom

[pony express]

Trailboss should work ok for your purposes in all but the .30 carbine, I don't know if you can come up with a load that will cycle the action on a semiauto. I use about 11.5 grains in my 30-40 Krag, the case capacity on that is very close to your .303. I think I used about 9.5 or so gr in the 30-30, and 11.5 worked well in my GEW 88. Bullets were 165 grain for 30-30, 195 for .30-40, and 225 for the 8X57.(All cast bullets)

[Palatine Tom]

Thanky you for your data hints


Tom

Trailboss should work ok for your purposes in all but the .30 carbine, I don't know if you can come up with a load that will cycle the action on a semiauto. I use about 11.5 grains in my 30-40 Krag, the case capacity on that is very close to your .303. I think I used about 9.5 or so gr in the 30-30, and 11.5 worked well in my GEW 88. Bullets were 165 grain for 30-30, 195 for .30-40, and 225 for the 8X57.(All cast bullets)

[pony express]

Palatine, here is the article I read about Trailboss and cast bullets to get started with them.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/trailbosskiss/index.asp

[Crow Choker]

Palatine Tom: I see now from your post on the 11th why you are searching for that 'one powder does all'. I assumed you lived somewhere in the US and didn't want to 'stock' a number of powders. I checked your 'stats' and see you live in Bavaria. Suppose to have distant relatives from that area (My Dad's parents came to US late 1800's and early 1900's). Anyway, we have 'rats' out of their cages out in Wash. DC and in state capitals trying to take our freedoms, ie restrict firearms, ammo, components, etc. We need to remain vigilant and wary of their methods and desires. Sometimes we get a little spoiled here in the US and need to see what 'brothers in arms' in other countries  have to put up with in order to see how we are blessed and need to 'fight' to retain our freedoms. 
  I like the article Pony Express posted about TrailBoss. A fine powder, although all I've used it for is 45 Colt and some 44 Special loadings. I remember the article now as I always buy Hodgens annual Reloading Issue, but forgot about the article. Thanks PE for 'joggin' my memory, will have to load up some 'military' loadings this winter and give TrailBoss a try in them.
Good luck on your quest Tom. Yours, Crow Choker

[Palatine Tom]

Dear all,

Thanks for the additional information on TB and your tips.

Have a great season time


Tom

[pakm]

Trail boss for the(6gr;s) .44-40 . acc #9 for the rest.  15 to 21 gr.s of #9 in the rifles. I shoot 19 gr.s in my .303 up to 21 gr.s in my 24/47;
15-21 gr.s in my 7.5x55 I shoot gas check bullets in hthe rifle but you really don't need the GC's under about 1800FPS or so. and 15 to 21 gr's in my hungrian styer(8x56R) (all lead bullets.) reduceted recoil don't you know)
Pat