winchester .44 cal pump rifle????

[Slamfire]

 Winchester got a patent for a pump action .44 cal. rifle in 1887,,,,,yes or no,,,would love to see one.






  Hootnix.

[Blair]

Slamfire,

This is what I have been able to find out;

Winchester asked J M Browning to design a simpler version of the Colt Slide Action Rifle. This Browning did and applied for a patent in in 1887.
This culminated into the Winchester M-1890 Slide Action Rifle. These were manufacture "only" in .22 rim fire caliber according to my source.
My best,
Blair

[Slamfire]

 Howdy "Blair;according to " K.D. Kirklnd's book" ( page 68)Americas premier gun makers, winschester,,It shows a .44 cal. pump action repeateing rifle,w/ 20" rd. barrel,etc.,etc.,patent was granted july 1887.It didn't say how many were mfg., And I was just wonder'n.




  THANKS, Hootnix.

[Blair]

Slamfire,

I have the book you mention.
Page # 68 list and shows a picture of an" Experimental Gas-operated Firearm", described as a gas-operated machine gun in .44 caliber, with a 20 round  box magazine. (listed within the Chapter under "Browning's Machine Guns and Aircraft Cannon")
Is this what you are asking about?
My best,
Blair

[ndnchf]

Page 244 of "John M. Browning American Gunmaker" the rifle is shown.  Patent # 367336. 

[Slamfire]

 My wife bought me a " 4" volume set ( from santa ), for Christmas. The patent # is the same sooooo, since ti is in the " Winchester" edition ,I just assumed ,,,,,,well ,,you ,,know .The description ,,in my book is not of a gas operated machine gun, but of a ( colt lighting type) pump action rifle,,puzzling ,,huh.




Hootnix.

[Blair]

ndnchf,

Your patent # is earlier then the one I have for the 1887 Browning # I have for what would become the Winchester M-1890 Slide Action Rifle.
Can you provide more details? ie, patent date and caliber of the firearm?

[ndnchf]

Blair - per the Browning Book:

Description: pump action or slide action rifle, tubular magazine type, with a pivoting breechblock, the rear end of which rises into locking engagement with the receiver. Instead of being placed to the rear of the breechblock, as is most common, the hammer works through a recess nearly in the middle of the breechblock, allowing for a very short receiver. The tail end of the hammer projects into the triggerguard forward of the trigger, allowing the hammer to be cocked or uncocked manually.

Patent 367336 was granted on July 26th, 1887.
Caliber: .44
Magazine: tubular
Barrel: 20" round
weight: 5lbs, 14oz

[Slamfire]

 ndnchf:,That's the description that's in my copy of Winchester book,hench the question,,i did;n know Winchester  or if , Winchester made a .44 cal pump( it also show's a picture) ,so it is a browning, not a Winchester??





Hootnix.

[Blair]

ndnchf

My documentation states a patent # of 385,238 dated June 26, 1888 for Winchester is based off of the J. Browning patent of Dec. 1887, in the Model !890 Winchester.

The patent # you offer must be earlier than the one I have from "The Winchester Book" by G. Madis.
Madis list nothing of a slide action rifle in anything but a .22 cal.
True, there maybe more info, but if you are familiar with this book, it is quite volumes  in its content, and I have not read every page in my efforts to answer questions on this forum.
Should you have additional info specific to a .44 cal. Pump action rifle "Manufactured by Winchester", as was asked by the original Poster... Please post the info and the photos.
I would very much like to see them as well.
My best,
Blair

[Abilene]

I'd certainly like to see a picture of that as well 

[ndnchf]

T.G. Bennet, president of Winchester bought just about every rifle patent John Browning got, just to prevent them going to competitors.  This book shows many of these rifles that were never put into production.  This appears to be one of them.

[Blair]

ndnchf,

I suspect you are very correct.
Winchester would have had to develop three frame sizes similar to what Colt did, to try to capture the complete market.
Winchester already had several very successful .44 repeaters in production during this time.
None in the light .22 cal. as the M-1890 provided.
If you want to study something interesting, look into the Winchester made revolvers?
My best,
Blair

[Pettifogger]

Patented and produced are two different things.  Winchester bought many Browning patents with no intention of ever building them.  Winchester bought the patents so no one else would.  If you want to see many of the Browning patent models they are in the Cody Museum in Wyoming.  They have one whole room of Browning patent models.  In those days when you submitted a patent you also submitted a "model" of what it was supposed to look like.  So in this case "model" means like a model airplane, not necessarily a full size final product like the "Model" 97.

[Slamfire]

 Guys,,Guys  hey guys,, I think I found the reason that our books differ,,,,,. Blair,, I checked out page #68 in my book on "Browning",,yor quote is correct ,,but its on page # 64 in my edition,,."THEN I NOTICED " in the lower left hand corner of the neat little ( nicely covered volume holder) "printed in china,,``So any ways.great info. Thanks ,,All.






Hootnix.