No clicks heard when rotating cylinder on brand new NMV

TheOtherLeft · September 28, 2013, 06:45:34 AM

Hi guys,

I've just bought a pair of new New Vaqueros in 38/357 with 5.5" barrels. When trying out one of them I didn't hear the "clicks" when rotating the cylinder. The other performed fine. I left the faulty one with the gunshop and took the other one home. The gunshop couldn't work out what the problem was and their gunsmith will be looking at it in a few days. Does anyone what makes the "clicks" when rotating the cylinder? These New Vaqueros are brand new.

Thanks.

Pettifogger · September 29, 2013, 01:09:06 AM

What makes the clicks is the hand/pawl moving over the teeth on the ratchet at the back of the cylinder. The NMV comes with a free spin pawl. Depending on how the pawl is adjusted you might not get any clicks. The question is does it work OK when shooting it. When the loading gate is closed, does everything work correctly? If it does, leave it alone. (The cylinder will not rotate backwards as Ruger put a spring loaded detent in the frame to prevent that. The free spin pawl was installed to make loading/unloading easier.)

TheOtherLeft · September 29, 2013, 01:59:49 AM

Quote from: Pettifogger on September 29, 2013, 01:09:06 AM
What makes the clicks is the hand/pawl moving over the teeth on the ratchet at the back of the cylinder. The NMV comes with a free spin pawl. Depending on how the pawl is adjusted you might not get any clicks. The question is does it work OK when shooting it. When the loading gate is closed, does everything work correctly? If it does, leave it alone. (The cylinder will not rotate backwards as Ruger put a spring loaded detent in the frame to prevent that. The free spin pawl was installed to make loading/unloading easier.)

I haven't fired it and left it with the gunshop. With the loading gate open it rotates either direction. It doesn't click with the loading gate open. When closed it dry fires fine.

The one I have at home (the other one I bought) clicks when the loading gate is open and only rotates one direction.

I didn't realise the NMV was meant to free spin with an open gate.

I do like the sound of the clicks though. It makes it sound more "authentic".

Paladin Gun For Hire · September 29, 2013, 01:12:28 PM

On that gun, the spring loaded detente has been removed. Nothing wrong with the gun. If you want the "clicks" have the detente installed.

TheOtherLeft · September 29, 2013, 04:08:38 PM

The problem is that I bought 2 New Vaqueros, one does it and one doesn't. Plus the serial numbers are quite close together so not sure why they would be different.

Is it possible it would've been done at the factory, since it's a brand new gun???

Pettifogger · September 29, 2013, 09:14:37 PM

the detent could have been left out during assembly or it could be stuck. In either event, no big deal. if you cock the hammer and look in the hammer channel on the lower left side you can see the allen screw that holds the detent and spring in.

rbertalotto · September 29, 2013, 09:51:03 PM

Lots of pards remove this spring and pin as it make loading and unloading MUCH easier as you can easily move the cylinder in both directions to line up the chamber with the loading gate.

Pettifogger · September 29, 2013, 09:56:54 PM

Quote from: rbertalotto on September 29, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
Not sure what these folks are talking about......looking at the gun from the rear, there are two screws that hold the grip frame to the main frame. These are on both sides of the hammer. Remove the left screw and under it is an extremely small allen screw. This screw applies pressure to a spring loaded pin that is designed to impede the cylinder from spinning backwards when the loading gate is open. If it is removed, stuck or not adjusted correctly the cylinder will spin in both directions upon unloading and no clicks will be heard.

Lots of pards remove this spring and pin as it make loading and unloading MUCH easier as you can easily move the cylinder in both directions to line up the chamber with the loading gate.

Hope this helps!

You aren't talking about a Ruger pardner. There are no springs under the left grip screw. Some Colt clones have a spring in there, but no Ruger Vaqueros. On the old Vaquero it was slightly difficult to align the chamber with the loading gate. The New Vaquero free spin pawl and detent system makes the chamber line up correctly. In the photo the set screw that holds in the detent is under and to the left of the base pin hole. The two grip screw holes do not have springs in them. The hole above the left grip frame screw hole is where the pawl plunger and spring go. These are NOT accessible by simply removing the left grip frame screw.

rbertalotto · September 29, 2013, 10:38:43 PM

Well how about that! My two NMV Rugers have the screws as I described. I removed both screws from mine and a friend of mine.

They must have made a change.

Pettifogger · September 29, 2013, 10:44:06 PM

Quote from: rbertalotto on September 29, 2013, 10:38:43 PM
Well how about that! My two NMV Rugers have the screws as I described. I removed both screws from mine and a friend of mine.

They must have made a change.

Have you got a photo of what you are talking about? I have early NMVs from when they first came out and current production. The detent and pawl holes have not moved. I am curious what you are referring to.

rbertalotto · September 29, 2013, 10:49:49 PM

#32, 33 and 34........

Pettifogger · September 30, 2013, 01:50:44 AM

That's the detent, spring and screw we have been talking about. It is the screw in the hammer channel below the base pin shown in the photo I posted. You don't get to it by removing the grip screws. There's nothing under the grip screws.

rbertalotto · September 30, 2013, 08:22:36 AM

Now ya got me thinking! I thought for sure I removed the grip screw to access it. But it looks like I was dreaming........I'll blame it on Old Age....thanks for clarifying!

TheOtherLeft · September 30, 2013, 08:55:01 PM

I've just spoken to the gunsmith who has stripped it down, gave it a clean and think's there was probably a burr on the spring detent. He said it now all performs as it should. i haven't picked it up yet but will do this afternoon.

Thanks for the help guys.

Hondo44 · October 01, 2013, 03:22:03 AM

The Other Left,

Another perspective:

Because new model rugers do not need the hammer moved to the 1/2 cock position for loading/unloading, the chambers do not align with the loading gate when the cylinder is turned and the pawl clicks.

So a new "indexing pawl" (that malfunctioned in one of your Rugers) was added to the New Vaquero and a few other NM Blackhawk revolvers so that the chambers will align with the loading gate slot like the old model Rugers and Colts.

Here you can see both the cyl pawl on top and the new Indexing pawl shiny button beside it which makes the click you hear::

Once it clicks the chamber is aligned with loading gate. To make it work this way, the regular cylinder pawl (or hand) no longer touches the cyl with the hammer down and no longer clicks. It's called a "free wheeling" cyl pawl and allows the cylinder to freewheel in both directions with loading gate opened. This makes it simple to align chambers with the loading gate. The great benefit of freewheeling cylinders is that if you load a round that might have a high primer, or a round with pulled bullet from recoil or other problem that makes the cylinder too tight to turn, you don't have to pull the cylinder to unload it, just turn the cylinder in reverse and unload it thru the loading gate.

However, although the new indexing pawl (the button) aligns chambers properly, it will not allow the cylinder rotation to be reversed. Therefore you lose the advantages above of the freewheeling cylinder. By removing the indexing pawl screw, sprng and button, you regain the freewheeling cylinder. This I much prefer and find more practical in shooting the Rugers. And of course you can always re-install it at anytime.

Hope that's useful,
Jim

TheOtherLeft · October 02, 2013, 05:22:21 AM

Thanks Jim for the explanation.

Now that I have it working properly, is it possible to remove the indexing pawl without having to strip the NV? Can it be unscrewed from the rear (besides the hammer)? Looking at it there may be clearance but I' not sure.

EDIT: Found my answer in the other thread.

Hondo44 · October 02, 2013, 03:49:20 PM

Quote from: TheOtherLeft on October 02, 2013, 05:22:21 AM
Thanks Jim for the explanation.

Now that I have it working properly, is it possible to remove the indexing pawl without having to strip the NV? Can it be unscrewed from the rear (besides the hammer)? Looking at it there may be clearance but I' not sure.

EDIT: Found my answer in the other thread.

Hi,
I didn't see the other thread and don't know what was written so I'll respond here. Yes you can remove it w/o taking the gun apart at all. A 1/16" Allen wrench of the "L" shaped style is needed. It's a little slower but not when considering the time to takedown the gun.

If one chooses to take the gun apart, an Allen tip in a screwdriver is more convenient. The hammer does not need removal.

If one wants to remove or exchange hammers, it is not necessary to remove the trigger and deal with that pesky cyl bolt/loading gate spring!

Once you take off the grip frame, the hammer pin is the only thing you have to remove to remove/replace the hammer. Even leave the cyl pawl in the gun. Just pull the hammer back and all the way down, then depress the hammer plunger in the base of the hammer with a small tipped screwdriver to clear the trigger ext. for the transfer bar. Let the hammer and pawl fall out. Install in reverse! Piece o' cake.