Looking for documentation on "civilian percussion cap pouches" - 1850's era

[bedbugbilly]

I'll try not to drag this out so bear with me please.  We all know that much of what we know of the leather goods used by our ancestors is based either on first person accounts and descriptions, advertisements, period drawings/images or surviving specimens.  Such books as "Packing Iron", etc. are very helpful and many original specimens of leather goods have survived - but it seems like much of what is pictured in many of the references is either "military" in nature or from the "cartridge era".

I would like to come up with some first person references, copies of advertisements or pictures of documented pieces for what was utilized to hold/carry percussion caps in by civilians when carrying such pistols as the '51 Navy in the 1850's or even earlier with such pistols as the Patterson.  While we know that the "percussion cap box" was certainly available to civilians from the Civil War on (such as those that the soldiers brought home with them or were later available through such surplus sellers as Bannermans), I have personally never run across an example or an image of a "civilian leather cap box" - either in reference books, or museums (that doesn't mean they didn't exist). 

On pages 62 to 64 of "Packing Iron", several images are shown from the 1840's of individuals with belt holsters - none are wearing what we would call a "cap box".  There are several good examples of waist belts, in particular the one on page 62 shown with the Kenutcky style pistol in a holster. 

Images of this time period are limited.  The images on page 63 show each of the gentleman with a "shoulder strap" which one would assume would be from a shoulder hung pouch.  Since the use of a single shot muzzle loader at this time would be very common for a civilian, we could assume that their pistol supplies (i.e. flask/small horn, balls and caps) would be carried in the same bag as their rifle necessities - but again, that is an "assumption".  I am looking for documented sources that might give an indication as to the carrying of their pistol necessities.  (Yes, I know that there were "pockets" in clothing but again, what was the common way of carrying their caps and other items).

As a BP shooter for 50+ years, I know that I have always depended upon a "hunting pouch" (or possibles bag) to carry my items for my rifle.  I have often carried my percussion caps in the small pocket inside the bag (that I have made).  My balls are in a small leather bag, and powder in either a horn hung from the bag or a smaller "day horn" or flask kept in the pouch.  As the westward movement started, a lot of pistols went along with the rifles and while I am assuming that the supplies were probably kept in a pouch, much as many of us do today, I have never seen any "belt cap boxes" and am trying to find out if they did indeed exist or if the use of them was a trickle down from the military as they were available as a result of the war and gained greater use as more pistols were carried in place of a long gun?

My grandfather was born in 1867 in Lenawee County, Michigan.  When he was young, he purchased a half-stock, .45 caliber "plains style" rifle from a man who came in to the Michigan Territory in the very early 1830's.  The man later built a Tavern/Hotel about a mile from where my grandfather grew up.  As with many muzzle loaders (and C & B revolvers), he used this firearm up until the early 1900's.  When we were cleaning my grandparent's house out after my grandmother's death in the mid 60s, I already had the rifle but I found the "bag pouch" bullet mold that went with it as well as a "ball bag" and a small glass bottle with a cork which he evidently used for keeping his powder as it was half full.  The ball bag was the typical style cut as a circle out of leather.  It was commercially made as it had two leather "pull tabs" sewn to the outside edge of the bag to pull on to assist in opening the bag.  On the inside of the ball pouch there was a leather "pocket" sewn in and he evidently carried his caps in that little pocket as there were a number of them in there.  If he ever had a hunting pouch and horn or flask, it didn't survive.  It appears that the caps and balls were always carried together in the ball bag.  His greased patches were carried in the patch box on the stock as a number of them still remain in it.  I would be more than happy to post some photos of these things but after my parents passed away, I gave them to my brother to be passed down to his children as I have none.

So can someone point me in the right direction to find some documentation as to how those who carried belt pistols in the 1850's (as well as later) carried their percussion caps as well as flask/horn and balls?  Nt everyone had access to combustible cartridges, especially in more remote areas.  Colt also had flasks, bullet molds, etc. to go with their pistols which to me, clearly indicates that many did not use combustible cartridges.  Did leather civilian "belt cap pouches" exist in the years prior to the Civil War - modeled after military cap pouches and is there any documentation to back it up?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

[St. George]

I think you're going to find that combustible cartridges were in much wider distribution than you think - earlier than you think - being the easiest way of all to carry.

The small packet fit easily into the vest pockets worn by one and all, and for normal carry, that was just fine.

Post-war, military cap pouches were readily available, but cartridge weapons were being introduced rapidly, as well - so many of those held cartridges, while bullet loops made their way onto belts.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[bedbugbilly]

St. George - thanks for your thoughts - greatly appreciated.

Perhaps I am looking at this through "current day" eyes?  I am sure that combustible cartridges were available and probably more widely distributed than what I think . . . but . . . . Colt still produced flasks and bullet molds for these handguns and a good number of them had to be used. 

"Need" is the best motivation for "invention" so I have to believe that with the military utilizing belt cap pouches for the rifled musket there had to be some sort of "influence" on civilians possibly coming up with a similar carrier for caps . . . I just have never personally seen such an animal though . . . thus I'm looking for some sort of documentation.  I'm sure that after the war, they were more commonly used.  A civilian though, who carried a handgun on a belt certainly wasn't looking for "combat" conditions such as a soldier had to reload under.  When I'm saying this, I'm not thinking "lawman" or "gun fighter" . . . I'm thinking of the common fellow who traveled west or who carried one at times for protection.

Over the years, I've seen a few period images of "Partisans" - such as those who rode with Mosby and the like.  Of course this was during the war and they were in essence "soldiers" (whether recognized as such or not).  I know that many carried as many as 4 revolvers when on a raid - 24 shots if all chambers loaded - so the chances that they would be reloading would be very slim.  They operated by hitting quick and hard and then evaporating into the territory around them.  They certainly did their job along the B & O Railroad.  In photos of them, when carrying pistols, I don't believe I've ever seen an image with one of them wearing a belt cap box?  (The images I've seen - both public and several images in private collections).  "Cappers" did exist but I know what I think of 'em as far as actual function - I much prefer to install caps by hand.  I have read of several first person references to loading the '51 where it had a cap groove in the gate area and once practiced, three caps could be laid in the groove and the nipples capped in a hurry.  But, these were from soldiers who had belt cap boxes where they could easily retrieve the caps from.  The "partisans" certainly had access to Federal belt cap boxes from the supplies and soldiers they captured . . . but I also realize those captured items could pinpoint them as a Partisan if someone saw them with one.  I have to believe that those who carried more than one pistol kept them well hidden so as to blend back in with the civilian population.

Caps and combustible cartridges could be carried in a vest pocket - but we also know that the clothing of the time was often hot and would contribute to sweating in warm weather - I know that personally from my own experiences - and the moisture could spoil the caps if they were loose and possibly the cartridges even though they were wrapped in a covering.  I'm assuming that as I really don't know how "waterproof" the packet of cartridges were.  Again though, I may be looking at this through my "present day" eyes/thoughts and am totaly wrong?

Combustible cartridges may very well have been more widely used than I realize, but the caps still had to be carried in some manner.  In the decade before the war, how did the civilian carry them?  If the cartridge packet contained caps, they could be utilized at the time of loading.  Arsenal Packs of ten cartridges for the rifled musket contained thirteen caps - when the packs were opened and the cartridges transferred into the cartridge box, the caps were put in the cap box on the belt.  However, if our ancestors had the same problem of "fumbling" and dropping caps as I do at times,  common sense would dictate that extras be carried - easily carried in a tin in the pocket but what I'm looking for is some sort of indication as to what, if anything, was ever utilized by a civilian as far as a cap pouch for the belt or something to indicate that a shoulder bag (possibles bag for want of a better word) was utilized by those civilians in the early days of the percussion revolvers - say the Patterson, '49, '51 etc. prior to the Civil War - as a means for carrying their loading sup pies - whether it be combustible cartridges or flask, balls and caps. 

Thanks again St. George - I appreciate your thoughts and hopefully some one will have some further information on it.   

[St. George]

I do think you're over-thinking this one.

Caps were carried in the little tins they were packaged in - they weren't loose.

Layered clothing - the undershirt, shirt, vest and coat - doesn't exactly mean that it's going to be a wet, sopping mess - and since the combustible cartridges were coated and encased in wooden blocks - they were pretty safe.

Makers did supply flasks and molds - but unless one was 'back of beyond' using that little mold required gloves and patience.

The idea of 'speed-loading' is fairly modern - revolver engagements were few and far between, unless it was a Cavalry engagement - so time was generally available.

Review the 'back pages' in the 'Historical Forum', and you'll find several threads.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[GunClick Rick]

Did they not use leather strips with little holes to put caps in and also sheep or wool liners in tins as well as ball carriers.?

[Trailrider]

Randy Steffan, in Vol. I of his great four-volume set on the Horse Soldier, comments that there were pockets in the front of early Dragoon jackets, which must have been for something other than personal belongings, and there were references in contemporary correspondence concerning copper tins for percussion caps, though Steffan admits he had never seen an actual specimen. His opinion was, however, that the size of the tins would have fit the pockets in the jackets. He also mentions that leather pouches were issued starting in 1845.

Now remember, photography was in its infancy, and would have been expensive for civilians and probably only for offical publications in the early 1850's. So documentation much prior to the Civil War on civilian accoutrements was pretty rare. I would submit, however, that practical ways of carrying balls, powder, caps (in tins) would have been about anything a citizen (civilian) could have thought up, made up, or had made by a leathersmith/saddler would be appropriate. Paper cartridges with the powder and ball/bullet were subject to damage if carried in anything but a substantial leather pouch, as Steffan points out.

It also depended on how much travelling the individual was planning to do. Your grandfather was probably not travelling extensively, other than hunting locally, so hauling a lot of prepared ammo was most likely not a problem, not for example what a latter-day mountain man or '49 might have had.