Advice needed on a pistol for my wife...

[Malachi Thorne]

Good Morning, All;

**Moderators: please feel free to move this question to a more appropriate forum, if required.**

My beloved wife would like to be able to join me in CAS shooting sports, but is unable to use any of my regular CAS Pistols (and I have 6 of them: three Ruger Vaqueros, two Navy Arms Schofields, and one Navy Arms M1875 Remington) due to a physical disability.  Her disability is known as Charcot-Marie-Tooth (CMT), an hereditary neuro-muscular disease somewhat common in the UK.  CMT's effects on my beloved are below average hand strength (if you saw her hands, you would say they are extremetly "delicate") and the need to wear leg braces when walking or standing for long periods of time.  Her hands are so weak that the simple act of cocking my single-action pistols is quite beyond her -- even with the lightest-weight hammer springs I can find.  Caliber is not an issue; and once the pistol is cocked, she can hold and fire a handgun with no problem -- she simply cannot cock the weapon safely or reliably.  So, here's my question:

Can anyone recommend a single action pistol, or gunsmith's modification to a ruger vaquero, for a lady in the above-described situation?  The pistol should be available in .45LC.

(For the record, she has no problem with either shotgun or rifle, as both of these weapons have much longer "lever arms" than the spur on a single-action pistol)

Thank you for your assistance in this matter; I look forward to your input.

I have the honor to remain,

Your Obedient Servant,

Bvt. Captain Malachi Thorne

[St. George]

One of the 'bad' things about Ruger Vaqueros is their weight distribution.
The earlier ones are just 'heavy' and their balance is somewhat 'off' when compared to that of a Colt.

That said - and not interested whatsoever in starting a 'Colt-versus-everything-else' thread - have you had her try one of the Open-Tops built on the Colt Navy's frame and grip?

The slightly smaller frame and grip of that particular revolver's configuration may lend itself to a more natural feel and balance and range of motion needed for the thumb to engage the hammer spur.
If she can wrap her thumb around the hammer - the balance will be such that it'll allow for cocking itself.

If you've got a blackpowder 1851 Navy handy - you can check immediately.
The cartridge conversions differ little in weight and balance.

If it does work - polishing the internals and using a good lube will also make the weapon smoother in handling.
Different-weight springs abound - so that part will be easy.

Good Luck.

Scouts Out!

[Jubel]

I have two suggestions one is the "birdhead", 38 lightning by Cimarron call them and explain your problem they are very helpful. the other suggestion is

  http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0015522214732a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&QueryText=1862+revolver&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.22&Go.x=31&Go.y=11&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=1862+revolver&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jsp

darn log web but it works the revolver is $150 ruoghly and R&D can fix it so your wife can use it no problem.

[Malachi Thorne]

Good Afternoon, St. George and Jubel;

Thank you for your suggestions.

We tried an 1851 frame last night, with less than spectacular results.  Even two-handed, my beloved's grip is not firm enough to safely handle the gun and cock it at the same time.  (By "safe", I mean that she can keep her finger off the trigger, but cannot adequately control the direction the gun is pointing in...)  I will contact a local gunsmith friend of mine, and see if he can get hold of a Cimmaron Lightning-gripped pistol, and see where that leads us.  Barring that, I'm afraid my beloved will have to stick to shotgun and rifle.

Again, thank you for your help.

Edited to add: While I know it would violate SASS rules, a Bisley-style hammer (without a Bisley grip) would go a long way towards solving some of the problems my beloved has cocking a pistol.  Trouble is, a Bisley grip would make holding the weapon nigh impossible for her.  I'm sure the clubs that run our local matches wouldn't care, though; but I'll check first.

I have the honor to remain,

Your Obedient Servant,

Bvt. Captain Malachi Thorne

[St. George]

Just for the hell of it - take a look at Elmer Keith's book - 'Sixguns'.

I'm away from my library - but I remember that in converting various Colt Single Actions - he'd sometimes use a Bisley hammer.

That hammer - with perhaps a set of the 'Faux Ivory' grips with a carved design that helps to fill the hollow of her hand - 'may' help by giving her a more 'grippable' surface.

Good Luck.

Scouts Out!

[jiminy criquet]

I'm sure the local club(s) would let her use DA revolvers if it meant the difference between not shooting at all and shooting safely.  Though not SASS 'legal', DA revolvers are period correct.

[blue drifter]

I'm sure the local club(s) would let her use DA revolvers if it meant the difference between not shooting at all and shooting safely.  Though not SASS 'legal', DA revolvers are period correct.

first I would check with the marshal, the town fathers might over look alterations to accommodate A disability
in the name of SAFETY. then I would go to A good gunsmith. if your wife can't get her thumb to the hammer mabe the gunsmith can bring the hammer to your wife .by putting an extension on the tip of the hammer that drops down to
just clear the backstrap when cocked. on page 22 top of page, if you have to ask permission to use something because it offers you A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE,the response will nearly always be no.this is for safety

[Malachi Thorne]

Good Morning, St. George, Jiminy Cricket, and Blue Drifter;

Excellent suggestions all; thank you.

As things stand right now, we are awaiting a gun-dealer friend of mine acquiring a Cimmaron Lightning pistol for my beloved wife to try out.  If the grip and weight are to her liking, we shall either have a Bisley Hammer installed, or an extension added to the existing Colt-style hammer, along with lighter springs and an action job.  Although an intriguing idea, a Double Action pistol is an impractical solution in this particular case, as my beloved wife is incapable of pulling the trigger on a revolver in double-action mode.  I have also spoken with the range-folk at the local clubs; they have confirmed that they would gladly make a "no modifications" exception for my beloved wife on the grounds of gun safety.

Again, thank you all for your thoughts and encouragement.

I have the honor to remain,

Your Obedient Servant,

Bvt. Captain Malachi Thorne

[Lars]

Malachi Thorne,

In your posts I do not see any mention of whether she is attempting cocking with a two-hand hold or a one-hand hold. I also see no mention of cocking technique. Perhaps you have exhausted both of these too. If not, I would suggest a two-hand hold, with the "off" hand doing the cocking.  There are also other aspects of cocking techniques that you may want to try.

For at least many women the two-handed hold makes cocking quite possible. There can be distinct differences in amount of effort required, depending on the actual positions of the cocking hand.

Technique can also be decisive in other ways. It takes most strength to simply pull the hammer back with the pad of the thumb, one- or two-handed. Many of us find that it takes less "strength" to cock the revolver by hooking the first joint of the thumb over the hammer spur, with the muzzle pointing upward at least 45 degrees, and "flipping" the muzzle down, allowing the inertia of the gun to cock the hammer (which is held back by the thumb). Recoil has often put the muzzle up at a suitable angle already, so part of the work is already done. When done correctly, the downward rotational inertia of the revolver will be just a bit more than needed to cock the gun, with little inclination for the barrel of the cocked revolver to continue downward, perhaps yanking the gun from the hands of a person with limited hand strength.

Best Wishes for finding a workable solution.
Lars

[Malachi Thorne]

Good Morning, Lars;

Excellent points -- and you are correct, I did not cover the cocking techniques we have tried either.

Given the inherent weaknesses in my beloved wife's hands, she must use a two-hand hold just to steady a pistol and point it downrange.  She is completely incapable of merely thumb-cocking any of my current SA pistols, and must use two hands to do this, necessarily pointing the pistol toward the ground in front of her while doing so.  The hammer's normal position and "stiffness" (even on my super-slicked Ruger Vaqueros) will not allow her to cock an SA pistol with her dominant hand's thumb alone.  Getting the hammer spur closer to her hand, or adding a lever which will increase mechanical advantage is pretty much the only thing we haven't yet tried.  My apologies for not making this clearer.

Again, thank you for your input; please do not hesitate to share any further ideas -- you never know what I might not have thought of.

I have the honor to remain,

Your Obedient Servant,

Bvt. Captain Malachi Thorne