New Pocket Watch ....

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Help!

I just bought a new pocket watch .... it was old enough to have a key that both winds it and sets the hands ...

The hinged back reads in a circle .... SILVERINE is horizontally in the middle and DUEBBERS makes the upper circle  and CANTON, O. make up the lower circle.

Any help out there?

[St. George]

Who made it?

The name's on the face.

The 'Silverine' and 'Duebbers' markings are only indicators of the maker of the case - 'not' the watch movement, itself.

Pop the back, and you'll see a serial number.

Armed with that - you can look up the maker online and see exactly when your movement was built.

Scouts Out!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

St George,


Here is a pic of the watch ... I want to apologize right off for the fuzzy copy, but it is the best my old camera can do ....

I will check with the watch shop that sold it to me ... I would think that they would have found the watch serial number and annotated it ...

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Probably a product of the Dueber Hampton watch works that was based right here in Canton, Ohio. When I was young, the old works building looked to me like a castle. The building was torn down in the late 50's or early 60's. A store was built on the property, and was finally converted into a church. Those watches are fairly collectable, my shooting partner( may he rest in peace) had one of the later ones

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Four Eyed Buck.

Spot on!  The case was made by the Duebber-Hampden watch case company of Canton Oh.

So far I have discovered this:

http://www.ipmall.info/hosted_resources/ip_antique_library/Trademark/Jewelers_1904_a.pdf

On page 115 towards the bottom it has an exact copy of what was on my watch case ...Duebbers (on the curve at the top), 'Silverein (across the middle), and Canton, O. (no h)

The wife of the watch repair person did not take the back off to see the serial number of the 'Illinois' watch .... They are going to do that tomorrow when I bring it in ... so stay tuned ....

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi again,

I also found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Watch_Company

TTFN,

[Tsalagidave]

A lot of people discount the importance of having a pocketwatch in their kit.  They were not a rich man's luxury but quite common. This type of watch is a typical working-man's watch and that's what makes it so perfect for your impression. It is a durable German Silver with a crystal face. This brand (Illinois Watch Co.) is well known for its durability and quality. The fact that so many still exist in good working order is fine testimony of their workmanship. A timepeice is how one can measure the day and plan their many tasks. Setting the time was simple. Pocket almanacs marked the precise time of sundown/sunup to the minute. This was the easiest and most precise way for a frontiersman or keeper of a town clock to make sure either stayed properly synchronized.

A lot of people get discouraged trying to find a good period timepeice at a decent price. Fortunately a good working model like this can usually be found for around $100 to $350. Nice find Wadd. The key mechanism is very period.

-Dave

[pistol1911]

You might also check the following site. Nat'l Assoc. Of Watch and Clock Collectors.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Pistol 1911,

Thanks for the reference ...they require joining to get into the real 'gut' of the website, and it is looking like Monday before the watch shop is open again to get a serial number ...

TTFN,

[Kinchafoonee Kid]

Good afternoon, Mr. Wadd.  Great find! Be careful, collecting old pocket watches can be a disease as terrible as collecting firearms!

Silverine is the name of the alloy from which the case is made.  Mostly nickel, with a tiny amount of either silver or other minerals.  It's greatest benefit is thatnitnwas durable and inexpensive, intended for the the working man.

Look at the back of the case.  It will either unscrew or is capable of being "popped" by using a thin knife blade into the slot usually found about one o'clock on the back.

Once opened, you will see the back plate, whcih is probably brass gilt and full (no view of the inside works).  Inscribed on the plate will be likely a grade name and a serial number. Google Illinios pocket watch serial number look up and enter this serial number.  Don't use the number from the inside of the case back; nearly all watches were sold "uncased" and married up with a case at the jeweler where purchased.

This serial number wil provide the approximate year of manufacture, grade and jewel count.  Higher jewel counts were usually indicative of a higher grade watch.  Seven to eleven jewels were lower and mid grade watches, but quite capable of good accuracy.  Fifteen was the standard of a high grade watch; anything after that was probably "gilding the lily" but in the late 19th and early 20th century there was a marketing bonanza, especially regarding railroad watches, for higher jewel counts, sometimes up to 25.

However, the best indicator of a well made watch was adjustment.  Unadjusted watches were usually regulated to isochronism (stability of timekeeping irrespective to how much the mainspring is wound, think after winding versus end of the day).  On watches adjusted to temperature, the balance wheel was made of steel and brass which expanded at different temperature, which kept the wqtch regulated in different temperatures.  Finally, a very good watch was adjusted to positions , I.e. regarding to maintaining regulation while being carried to in different positions, as being carried in a vest pocket, or laying on its side on a dresser for example.

My favorite watch is an E. Howard and Co Series VIII! Grade 7' which was adjusted to isochronism, temperature and six positions, made circa 1885.  E. Howard's were marketed as a gentlemans watch, and priced accordingly.  As a consequence, all grades were accepted for railroad service up to the early 20th century.  This watch keeps time commensurate with my Omega Seamaster.

I also have a Waltham 1857 model Appleton Tracy and Co, with 15 jewels which was made in 1869.  My Waltham 1870 15 jewel was the first watch specifically advertised for railroad service.  I have an Elgin B.W. Raymond grade 70 made in 1888 which was one of the mainstays of railroad service, according to some sources.

EBay and other online sources have good pocket watches for sale.  If you buy one, do some research first and know when the watch was made so it will fit into your time frame, then ensure you have it cleaned and serviced.  Most of them can be made to keep very good time, but remember they are not a quartz watch.  I get many compliments on my watch and chain, as I wear it every day.  My grandfather carried his Hamilton 992 and wore a Stetson hat every day.

My apologies to those who know more about watches than I do.  The above information is off the top of my head.

Thanks for letting me talk about watches and good luck finding this watch, Mr. Wadd.  It really adds to an impression.

Kinchafoonee Kid.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Kinchafoonee Kid,

First the has to be a good story behind a moniker like that one! Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to show it to the room ....

First off, I am guessing it is later than 1883 .... There are just too many goodies on it ...

One, the case is silverine through and through ... in the lower half of the case is stamped DUEBBERS, forming the top half of an oval; Then dividing the oval in half is the word 'SILVERINE' .... and the bottom part of the oval is formed by the words 'Canton O"
There is a Duebbers serial number for the case .... but it is so small I cannot read it ...

The watch repair shop shop said that if I brought the watch in they would crack the case and check the Illinois serial number ...
and, through books could tell me the weight, number of jewels, date of manufacture and more ... so check back Monday Night PST and I should have a lot of the answers ...

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Kinchafoonee Kid,

One of the 'ggodies is that both the silverine-edged glass fromt and the backing plate both have ridges in the case the allows the front and back to be opened without  a knife .... I am guessing around 1883 they got tired of repairing cases that had been screwed up by knife blades and added the flanges .... (again, part of my later-than-1883 theory)

TTFN,

[Kinchafoonee Kid]

Good morning, Mr. Wadd.  I look forward to hearing the results of the jeweler's inspection.  No doubt you have a treasure there.  Illinois were highly desired by railroad men.

I grew up in Marion County, Georgia and one of the main bodies of water was Kinchafoonee Creek, which originated in a spring in the western part of the county and flowed southeast until it hit the Flint River near Albany.  This area contained some of the most fertile ground in the county and is where most of the planters lived prior to the War Between the States.

I joined the Marines to see the world and many years later ended p in Colorado, which I now call home.  However, Kinchafoonee reminds me of my boyhood home.

[GunClick Rick]

It's a sickness i tell ya!!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

According to he jeweler, the case or the watch has been worked on by some one who left his initials and number ... RE 4467

Bu once the case was off the Illinois serial # was 12114XX making it an 1894-5 watch ... with probably 7-11 jewels ...


Does that answer most questions or just lead to more?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Rick,

Yes, it is an addiction ... but there are worse addictions ... I could be and alcoholic of a druggie ... *S*
I keep telling myself that I can stop ar any time ... LOL

[GunClick Rick]

Well in my opinion you got the right one,them fancy ones can be finicky and are for dress only,but one like yours is an everyday affair which i like.I'm gettin ready to try my luck at some leather work for my pocket watch,i drew up a pattern now i just need to get some leather,probably 6oz. not to thick not too thin.

By the way check this out 
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=13171093