Round barrel 1873 rifle from Uberti ???

[Abilene]

Howdy Rick.  All the repro '73's have that lever safety.  The originals had it as well.  On the Uberti's the spring for that safety is often rather stiff, but it is not difficult to reduce the tension of that spring or replace it with a piano-wire spring.  Many folks over the years have just removed that safety, and frankly by doing so you are making your '73 no less safe than a '66 which does not have that safety (except some of the very early repros).  However, out-of-battery discharges do become possible, especially if you are a speed demon, so usually the recommendation is to leave it in there but just lighten the spring if desired.

Regarding calipers, you can pick up a dial caliper for under $20 and they are really easy to use.  Here's one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-dial-caliper-66541.html 
They often have digital calipers on sale for less than that, and I really like them except when the battery goes dead.  So I also have a dial caliper for those occasions 

[RickB]

Thanks Abilene. If the safety is authentic to this model then it will stay and I'll learn to use it. I'm no speed guy so it won't do me any good to do away with it.

I'll check on those calipers.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings My Good Rick -
If you like, I can load up some dummy .38's with lead bullets, (no powder, and no primer) to the length of your choice and send via snail mail. No powder, no primer = no problems with USPS. I like to drill a hole thru the side so it is CLEARLY a dummy.  Of course they won't get there till sometime next week, but....

Bob knows (that's Bob yer Uncle) ,  I have enough 38 cases so that without the impossible to find small pistol primers, it will be no hardship at-all  on my end - and right now, i really need something useful to do  

let me know, pm me or whatever ...
yhs
prof marvel

[RickB]

Thanks Professor. I'll keep youin mind if the gun store owner won't cycle a couple of my .38 rounds through it to give me peace of mind over buying this gun. As you might notice, I take my time when buying something so expensive and important.

[RickB]

Well, I bought the rifle. It's a beautiful gun. Feeds .38s like it needs to. Only problem I seem to have is it will only allow 7 or 8 rounds in the tube and the 8th one is a struggle to get in.

The website for Uberti says it should take 9+1 357. I would figure that should be the same or better for.38s.

Should I snip a couple coils from the spring ?

[RickB]

Some pictures of my new family member.

Once I get the loading issue corrected I think this will be a great addition to my collection.

Just an addition, when I can fit 8 rounds in the tube it makes racking the lever very hard. The bullets are pushed back so strongly into the carrier that the next round protrudes into the chamber and locks up the action. It seems that the spring and follower in the mag are pushing back too hard on the rounds and not allowing me to load a full mag of ammo. I figure I should be able to get 10 rounds in it from what I've read on line.

Now, one stupid question. If I do cut off some coils from the spring and screw something up, how easy is it to get a new spring? I like to make sure I can get a replacement if I mess it up.

Thanks in advance.

[Pettifogger]

Did you buy a 16" trapper?  Sometimes they hold ten .38s, sometimes they don't.  Don't cut anything until you have checked out every other possibility.  Any other barrel length 73 should hold ten rounds with no problem.  First and foremost what is the OAL of your ammo.  (And, about 1 7/16" isn't a usable answer.)  Again, we need to be clear and figure out what you are talking about.  It is impossible for for a round in the carrier to cause the next round to "protrude into the chamber."

Between the time I read your post and answered the photo showed up on your post.  Yes, you bought a Trapper.  In order to get it to hold ten rounds the ammo length is CRITICAL.  We need to know the specs on your ammo.  Remember, all you have to work with is the magazine tube and the length of the carrier.  Ten rounds have to fit in and still leave room for the spring and follower.  For example, if your ammo is 1.575" ten rounds are going to take up 15.75."  That basically is the entire mag tube.  That means the spring and follower have to fit in the space created by the carrier, i.e., 1.600".  That ain't a lot or room.  If your ammo was 1.500" ten rounds would fit into 15 inches.  You would then have .75" + 1.600"  (the carrier) or 2.350" for your spring and follower.  That 3/4" can be the difference in getting in nine or ten rounds.  On newer trappers they use a special tapered magazine spring that compresses into itself.  You don't want to cut that spring as they are hard to come by.

[RickB]

Yes I bought the 16 inch trapper. I'm pretty sure I said that was the model they had for sell. The 73s come up pretty rarely in my neck of the woods. That's why I've sought so much as input on this purchase. I did a lot of reading from magazines like Guns of the old West and numerous web sites including the Uberti site. They all said this model would hold 9 or 10 rounds. I guess I shouldn't believe them but I did.

The .38 ammo I bought seems to be standard length . If it was shorter it would jam up the action like the snap caps did. So this gun seems to allow only 6 rounds into the mag before it starts becoming a problem with feeding the ammunition correctly. 7 or 8 rounds cause jamming. It won't allow more than 8. I'm going to contact stoger about this. I don't think the dealer accepts returns. That's why I asked so many questions before I paid $1000+ for this gun.

I'm wondering if I made a bad investment.

[Pettifogger]

Yes I bought the 16 inch trapper. I'm pretty sure I said that was the model they had for sell. The 73s come up pretty rarely in my neck of the woods. That's why I've sought so much as input on this purchase. I did a lot of reading from magazines like Guns of the old West and numerous web sites including the Uberti site. They all said this model would hold 9 or 10 rounds. I guess I shouldn't believe them but I did.

The .38 ammo I bought seems to be standard length . If it was shorter it would jam up the action like the snap caps did. So this gun seems to allow only 6 rounds into the mag before it starts becoming a problem with feeding the ammunition correctly. 7 or 8 rounds cause jamming. It won't allow more than 8. I'm going to contact stoger about this. I don't think the dealer accepts returns. That's why I asked so many questions before I paid $1000+ for this gun.

I'm wondering if I made a bad investment.

I wouldn't worry at this point.  The Uberti 73s are the number one gun used in CAS shooting for a reason.  It will be a fine shooter once the teething problems are taken care of.  Your inability to take measurements is, however, going to make solving these problems a little difficult.  Maybe you can post a photo of your ammo so we can see what type bullet you are using and get an idea if there is an obvious problem with the ammo.  How old is the gun?  Is it new production or an older, perhaps used, model?  (The older ones do not have the collapsible spring and most will only hold nine.)  Do you reload, can you make some dummy rounds?  Not healthy to be trying to figure out gun problems with live ammo.  Have you been able to remove the magazine cap so you can remove the spring and follower?  If so, try this first.  Take ten rounds and drop them down the mag tube (make sure the lever is CLOSED so the first round drops into the carrier).  Then take a stick or rod and drop it in the mag tube.  Mark the stick at the end of the mag tube and take it out.  Subtract out the thickness of the end cap and what is left is all you have for the spring and follower.  What is this measurement?  (In this case inches +/- 1/16th of inch inch is good enough.)

[RickB]

OK. I bought a digital caliper at Radio Shack. I've used it to measure the bullets, the magazine cap and the amount of space left in the magazine when 10 rounds are in it. Here is the stats.

First, the rifle is brand new. Never shot (outside of the factory if they test fired it). So it's not an old beat up model from way back. That should help I hope.

The bullets. Measure out at 1.53 inches. they are actually 1.5355 according to the caliper. I've included a photo of them to help.

The magazine cap measures at 0.86 inches. I subtracted this length from the measurement of the remaining space left in the mag with 10 rounds in it.

OK. I took out the cap, spring and follower and slid down 10 rounds into the mag. With all 10 rounds in (one was in the carrier as you said) I used a wooden dowel to measure the remaining space in the mag. Minus the cap it measures at 2.0785. It seems to me that this should be enough space to allow the spring and follower to compress and allow at least 9 rounds if not 10. But I'll wait to see what you determine from these measurements.

I read the articles in Guns of the Old West. The main one I read was about the Cimarron Trapper model. They did say in the article that the Cimarron was a standard Uberti except that they use a specialized follower and spring to allow 10 rounds into the mag. The GotOW issue is the Spring 2012 one. Page 77.

My 73 is one imported by Stoeger. So it probably doesn't have the special follower and spring. But, i would still expect it to hold 9 rounds easy. Mine gets really hard to put in anymore rounds after round 5 or 6. At round 7 it is very stiff and round 8 is like pulling teeth. Plus when I start levering the action the bullets come back into the carrier and jam up the action. Maybe the ramp on the carrier isn't done to the extent where it will push the next round back into the magazine. It seems pretty shallow in my opinion.

I do reload, but I don't have the equipment for reloading .38s yet. Working on that. But it won't be for a while.

Maybe my solution is to contact Cimarron and try to buy just the special follower and spring they use in their model.

Anyway, here is the picture of the ammo and I included one of the spring and follower and mag cap.

Please let me know what you think.

[Abilene]

With the mag cap off, how much of the spring extends out of the mag?  Maybe they accidently put a spring from a 24" rifle in there? 

[RickB]

When the mag cap is removed and the spring is allowed to extend fully, it hangs out of the mag tube at 3.0725 inches. That doesn't seem like an excess to me. But then I'm no expert on these rifles.

I wrote Cimarron yesterday about their custom mag spring and follower for these trappers. They wrote back to me today and said that they have the parts in stock and will sell me one or two sets if I want them. I asked about the article in GOTOW and they confirmed that their springs and followers should fix the issue. At a cost of around $11 for the spring and $8 for the follower I figure it's worth a try to get this great little gun working as needed. Pretty cheap fix in my opinion.

I'm going to order two springs and two followers just to have a spare set. Can never been to safe.

[RickB]

Just placed the order with Cimarron on the parts. Like I said I ordered two of each. The spring and follower x 2.

The guy I was in contact with is a gent named Chris Ballard. Very friendly and helpful. He wrote me and told me he was making sure I got the correct parts and the shipping would only be $9.00.

He also said that I should have the parts by the weekend.

I'll report back on how this works out.

[Abilene]

Yes, Chris is a good dude.  However, the Cimarron trappers also have a special magazine cap that is hollowed out on the inside to help get ten in the tube.  That only adds about 1/4" or 1/3" but it helps if you are loading full length ammo.  I can get ten 45LC in my 16" Cimarron trapper with an OAL of 1.59".  Since you are going to be using .38's which are a bit shorter you ought to be okay without the hollow mag plug.  Last time I looked, they didn't have those in stock, anyway.

Still seems odd that you would have that binding with only 7 or so in the tube.  Keep us posted and good luck.

[RickB]

If the spring and follower don't totally fix the problem I'll try the custom mag cap next. Thanks for theinfo on that.

[Nakota]

I think that the Springrate (on the end of your Spring) ist too high if it is compared with this Spring: http://longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=245.

[RickB]

Well, I got the springs from Cimarron and installed them with the follower I also got from Cimarron and that didn't fix the problem. It seems that they allow 9 rounds (almost 10) into the tube but they don't fix the problem because they don't allow 10 rounds and when I get to the last round in the mag it doesn't get pushed into the carrier far enough to not jam the action.

Guess I'm going to be taking the gun back to the gun store and seeing what they can do to help me. I spoke with the guy at the gun show over the weekend and they said to bring it in and they will see what they can do. I did see that the receipt I have from them says no returns on guns so I assume that means I can't get my money back if I ask for it. But I can get them to send it back to Stoeger for repair and/or replacement.

I still think it needs to have the carrier fixed so it has the ramp adjusted to push the next round back into the mag tube and not need me to really crank on the lever to force it back in.

I also found a nice 1892 Rossi in .38/357 for $550.00 that I may buy to use as a backup for my 73. I'm thinking that one over. It has a long barrel and will hold at least 10 rounds.

[Abilene]

Rick,
Well it's good to know that the new parts helped.  As for trying to get that tenth round in there... Does it function okay with nine loaded?  If it does, then I would not expect Uberti to do anything to it if you sent it to them for warranty repair.  They may just say it meets the spec so it is good.  Can you get that tenth round loaded into the rifle but it just locks up with ten?  And if so, is that tenth round sitting at an angle on the carrier?  That can cause a jam and I described that issue in this thread: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,47941.0.html in which case part of the rim of the round on the carrier gets caught under the edge of the frame and cannot rise.

If that is the case, even filing the bevel into the frame as mentioned will probably not alleviate the jam.  There is a LOT of spring tension on the rounds in the tube in a trapper with ten loaded.  By straightening out the tenth round on the carrier, that should make it cycle okay (I have to do that to my 45LC trapper to get the first round to cycle).  If the last round is straight and it still won't cycle, then you may simply have no more room in the mag tube to push the ninth round forward that fraction of an inch with the carrier ramp, and you may simply need shorter OAL on your ammo (and/or adding the hollow magazine end cap, if you can find one).  If it functions okay with any number of rounds more than one in the rifle, then the ramp on the carrier is probably fine.

[RickB]

Well, I got it figured out. I talked with the guys at Stoeger and they told me the stock rifle is a 9+1 mag. I told him how stiff my spring is and he asked me how old the rifle is and if it has been shot. I said it was brand new and hasn't had a round through it yet. He told me that I should take it out and shoot it and break it in. I just sat down and loaded it and then cycled the rounds through it. Kept doing that until I could get 9 rounds in the mag. That was with the stock spring and follower. So after doing this a couple dozen times I got it so I could load the 9 rounds pretty easy.

So, I had to try one more thing. I took out the stock mag spring and used the slightly shorter one I bought from Cimarron. With the Cimarron spring, the stock Stoeger follower and the Stoeger mag tube cap I have been able to work it so now I can feed 10 rounds into the mag tube and it cycles pretty well. I just think that it needs to be worked until it feeds smoothly. So now I am happy. About darn time right? 

So far I've ran 10 rounds through it with little problem a few times. I have it loaded up with 10 in the tube and will just let it sit for a day or two to compress the spring and let it get broken in. This weekend the Phoenix Irregular Guard is having their first shoot of the year. I might go so I can get my rifle broken in even more. Plus I will be able to use my two 1851 Opentop RM conversions.

Now All I need is a belt that's made for .38 Specials.

I must admit I am still partial to my .45s (1866 Yellowboy, Wells Fargo Schofiled, a standard 7 inch barrel Schofield, and a 4.3 Colt Clone), but I think having the option to use .38s will help me save some money and allow me to shoot more often.

Now I'm a happy camper.

Thanks for all the information and help.