Hollywood holsters

[Doug.38PR]

I just have to ask:  Why does your typical hollywood western have a gun holster with a single action army hanging in a real low holster sagging from the belt (I.E. Paladin, Matt Dillon, etc.).  I understand real western holsters weren't like that at all.  Why not just to a regular holster slid onto a belt one way or the other they way they were?

Not that I don't like those hang down holsters.  They fit well and the gun is even with where your hand hangs.  So, why didn't they design any holsters like that in the real 19th century?

[Old Top]

Doug,

The first pistols were called horse pistols because they were carried by a horse in a pommel holster which was like a saddle bag on the front of the saddle to give the dragoon (mounted infantryman) more fire power.  That holster was basicly a bag to carry a pistol in and protect it, as the pistols got smaller and were carried by humans they went to a more shaped bag with a flap, still to protect the pistol, someone got the bright idea to cut off the flap and you had basicly the slim jim holster.  Still most of the holsters were to carry and protect the pistol, the leather was light and the pistol grip was about all that you could see of the pistol.  In the 80's they started making more dectorative such as the mexican loop ect.  The low hanging holster that you are looking at is the buscadaro which was around 1920's if I remember correctly, which did get the gun hand in a relaxed manner on the grip, but sitting down is not easy but they were designed for fast draw.  Hope this answers some of your questions, I am sure that more knowledgeable people will have much more to add.

Old Top

[Major 2]

short answer, fast draw (as you said , " gun is even with where your hand hangs")

Hollywood was in the Golden era, all about the " shootout "  tied down & quick draw ... TV & Screen personalities prided themselve on who was faster or whom was the fastest. Most tought by Arvo Ojala & later Thell Read both fast draw champions.
Oddly enough two of the very fastest & fancist handlers were Jerry Louis & Sammy Davis Jr. neither of whom you'd call western personalities.
Paul Newman & John Wayne were quite skilled, James Garner, & Michael Landon were no slouches either.
And as I recall, Mongomery Cliff & John Ireland were fast too.

If you looked past the lead personalities and their Buscadero rigs, you will see leather more correct to the true examples.
I:E  George "Gabby" Hayes

[pony express]

The ones I always had to wonder about were the ones that had instead of a bucadero belt, just a straight belt worn at a steep angle across the hips. You'd HAVE to tie it down to draw the pistol, because the belt is so loose like that, the whole thing would probably just ride up with the gun.

[St. George]

Ever stop to think that photos were rare enough that they were posed - as in decked out with props?

Contrary to C&WAS belief, most folks of the era didn't wander about heeled unless it was needed, since they were working, but if they were going to be photographed, they better clothing and weapons were often in evidence.

Scouts Out!

[Mean Bob Mean]

tied down & quick draw ...

Were "tie down" holsters even used in the old west?  If so, when did they come into use and how prevalent were they?

[Major 2]

No Sir... prevalent not at all

Tie downs ?  I'd era to the silver screen .. certainly that's when the Buscadro rigs came about .


St George is correct   

and maybe he'll help me here ...

leg ties on some experimental Military flap holster (cavalry) circa 1892 -98     for the Colt new service DA Revolver ?
I know they were used 1900-09 with the Colt DA. 
The 1911 cavalry holster had a leg strap that buckeled ....

I'll have to pull out my Steffens... 

[St. George]

We issued the tie-down up until the M1911A1 and the associated M1916 holster was phased out in the late 1980's - when we adopted the brand-new M9 and the new M12 holster.

It was featured on the holsters used with all variants of the .38DAs and the M1909 revolvers before adoption of the Colt automatic that used the M1912 and M1916 holsters.

Today, we use a tie-down with the thigh holster, but that's to keep it in place as we enter/exit vehicles and run - it's 'not' designed for any sort of 'High Noon' fast draw.

Tied-down holsters pretty much had to be used for the fast draw so beloved of the Silver Screen.

I own a large number of 'real' Old West holsters - none have tie-downs.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!



-

[Mean Bob Mean]

Re: Tie downs

I thought not, had never seen one from the "old" west.  Thanks. 

[Old Doc]

The ones I always had to wonder about were the ones that had instead of a bucadero belt, just a straight belt worn at a steep angle across the hips. You'd HAVE to tie it down to draw the pistol, because the belt is so loose like that, the whole thing would probably just ride up with the gun.

I remember going to the movies as a kid and some cowboys had two holsters and two crossed belts with that steep angle you mention. Unless those belts were somehow anchored to the pants belt at the high point, seems to me they would fall around your ankles after about two steps. As for Matt Dillon,  if you look at the early half hour shows now on the westerns channel, you'll see that he wore several holster rigs before settling on the familiar Arvo Ojala model. At least one was a belt going through the holster loop i.e. Not a buscadero.

[petrinal]

I just have to ask:  Why does your typical hollywood western have a gun holster with a single action army hanging in a real low holster sagging from the belt (I.E. Paladin, Matt Dillon, etc.).  I understand real western holsters weren't like that at all.  Why not just to a regular holster slid onto a belt one way or the other they way they were?

Not that I don't like those hang down holsters.  They fit well and the gun is even with where your hand hangs.  So, why didn't they design any holsters like that in the real 19th century?

just adding that that  type  of holster existed before Arvo Ojala, as can be seen in many 1930´s movies, being the earlier examples  the holsters used by exhibition shooters in Wild West Circus performances at the beginning of the XX century.

I dont like fast draw but this type of Buscadero holsters  problably represents the higher development of the SAA holster.

In short, it  was a Hollywood invention, and Arvo Ojala was the master in that invention. If what he invented was for good or for ill, is a good topic for another thread, but Buscadero holsters, when made with good taste, are a true beauty.

all the best

[Old Doc]

I have some old catalogs by Ed Bohlin. His holsters pre-dated those by Arvo and are very similar. Arvo's improvement was the metal lining.