Penetrating oils for loosening rusted parts.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho the fire,

A good friend sent me this in an email.  Since we work with black powder, rust can occasionally sneak up on us.  When it does we need all the help we can get so as to not chew up stuff.

Paste. . . . . . .


Interesting!  Even if you're not mechanically inclined, this might be worth noting.

    This story came to me from one of the guy's in the EAA club  Interesting !!

    "Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various penetrating oils. The magazine reports they tested these products for "break out "torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of popular penetrating oils, with the unit of merit being the torque  required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted"  bolt.
    Average torque load to loosen nut:
    No Oil used .........................516 foot pounds
    WD-40 ..................... .........238 foot pounds
    PB Blaster ..........................214 foot pounds
    Liquid Wrench .......................127 foot pounds
    Kano Kroil ..........................106 foot pounds
    ATF/Acetone mix..................... 53 foot pounds

    The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product in this one particular test.
    Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as Kroil for 20% of the price.
    ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50/50 mix.  ATF = Any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid
                            This version of the story was in one     
                       of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters:

DD-MDA

[Kent Shootwell]

Now that's some useful info! Thanks, I like the subjective test aproach rather then opinions.

[Ranch 13]

I've seen that list and it's to bad, it doesn't include the best knokerloose I've found, and that's Zep Reserve.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Ranch,

Since you're familiar with that juice, I suggest that you run a double blind study comparing it with the stuff I posted.  We would all benefit from your work.

DD-MDA

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Good stuff and great ideas!  Thanks for the "tip." 

I've always had good luck with Pen.Oil and I recently got some Kroil - which smells exactly (to me) like my old Liquid Wrench Pen.Oil. 

But ATF+Acetone - hmmmm.  We don't need it often but when one DOES need it, it's very valuable!  I have a project right NOW that I have already been soaking with the Kroil.  If I find something else, I'll give the ATF/Ace. a try.

I also have a partial can of Army issue penetrating oil.  I'm pretty sure it's Liquid Wrench.   Thing is, a little goes a long way - I've had this partial can for over 30 years!



Side note:  if any of you brilliant types decide to mix and MARKET a product of an ATF/Acetone mix, remember that I came up with the catchy name "ATF-ACE."  A small  .1% to 1% developer's/finder's fee (or whatever it's called) would be appropriate!  And welcome!

[Major 2]

Ed's Red

http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9


CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)


Link includes  MIXING INSTRUCTIONS FOR "ER" BORE CLEANER:

Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal,
chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA
approved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use
HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will eventually evaporate.
The acetone in ER will also attack HDPE, causing the container to
collapse, making a heck of a mess!

Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other
components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the
lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking
precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger
container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and
stirring until it is all dissolved.

I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the
50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for optional use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil.
This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining
mix.

[john boy]

... Been using the 50:50 mix since 2009 when I found the link and article on a car repair forum and posted it on TOR ...
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7136.0

In addition to rust, it will break any threaded die connections frozen with crud or BP.  Also if taking off a barrel from the receiver, wrap string on the barrel at the receiver as a wick - soak with the acetone:ATF mix.  First time doing this was with an 1881 JM Marlin barrel that needed to be lined

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

John boy;  As I was reading Dick's post It struck a chord.  I'd seen this before, and you beat me to the back pages to find the link.  TOR has some very good technical information that needs to be BTTd like this everyonce in a while.

John;  So you weren't Ben B--- B------ !

[Ranch 13]

Howdy Ranch,

Since you're familiar with that juice, I suggest that you run a double blind study comparing it with the stuff I posted.  We would all benefit from your work.

DD-MDA

Mr. Rhode I've done more than a "double blind study", I've spent a lifetime repairing and maintain farm and ranch equipment.
That sir is exactly how I was able to say "I've seen that list and it's to bad, it doesn't include the best knokerloose I've found, and that's Zep Reserve."
Been there done that have the expenses in the books, skinned nuckles and busted sockets to back it up.

[john boy]

Don, I thought you made the name up - Never hear of the product
http://www.superkleendirect.com/zepzepreserve-nc.aspx  ...http://webfiles.acuitysp.com/psr/psr_0095.PDF
Name of Hazardous Ingredients CAS number % by Weight
Section 3. Composition/Information on Ingredients
LIGHT AROMATIC NAPHTHA; aromatic hydrocarbon solvent; solvent naphtha (petroleum) 64742-95-6 10 - 30
ALIPHATIC NAPHTHA; ligroin; stoddard solvent 8052-41-3 10 - 30
MINERAL SEAL OIL; mineral oil; petrolatum 64742-30-9 10 - 30
ETHANOL; ethyl alcohol; grain alcohol 64-17-5 5 - 10
2-ETHYL HEXYL ALCOHOL; 2-ethyl-1-hexanol; 2-ethylhexanol 104-76-7 5 - 10
PARAFFIN OIL; blend of heavy and light naphthenic petroleum distillate 64742-52-5 5 - 10
DIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER; 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)-ethanol; butyl carbitol 112-34-5 1 - 5
CARBON DIOXIDE 124-38-9 1 - 5
1,2,4-TRIMETHYLBENZENE 95-63-6 1 - 5

[Ranch 13]

  Nope stuff is real, cost about 11$ a can, but when you use it like the directions say, it will save you hundreds of dollars for new shafts with bearing's froze to them,etc...Get it at a variety of parts houses and Implelment dealers.
  ???John I figured by now you would know I don't "make stuff up"

[Dick Dastardly]

I've been looking up materials that make up containers that we can use to hold the ATF/Acetone mixture and found that plastic is fine as long as it is LDPE and not HDPE.  To those in Rio Linda, LDPE is low density polyethylene and HDPE is high density polyethylene.  I'd want a cap that fits well.

FWIW, Acetone is very flammable.

DD-MDA

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

Thanks. That's good info. I'm a big fan of Kroil.

[john boy]

I've been looking up materials that make up containers that we can use to hold the ATF/Acetone mixture ...

Dick, I smoke and use a Zippo lighter and the fuel comes in a metal can with a squirt top ... get where I"m going?
I also fill up an empty can of Zippo fluid with Eezox and the quart cans of both stay on the the shelf until refill times

Why I use the lighter fluid cans?  Ever try to put a drop of Eezox or the 50:50 mix on a screw from a screw off cap on a LDPE plastic container?  Only way it can be done is dip a Q-Tip into the LDPE container and that gets to be a PITA after repeated use - especially when trying to lube the insides of a firearm after cleaning before it goes back in the safe

[Dick Dastardly]

No Zippo cans here, but I like the idea of a metal spout can to apply release agents.  Thanks John Boy.

DD-MDA

[john boy]

Dick, you can buy a metal can of lighter fluid with the flip up spout for 3 bucks.  Here's some pictures of various metal cans

https://www.google.com/search?q=lighter+fluid&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=QQz&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ORD2UNOpD4q10AHVw4GIAw&ved=0CGkQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=473

[Bonnie_blue1861]

Thanks. That's good info. I'm a big fan of Kroil.

I'm also a big fan of Kroil. It really does the trick, when most everything else, short of a torch's heat fails.

I always joking said that someone should make a men's cologne, that smells like WD40...I just love the smell of that stuff.