Black powder sub test experiance

[Herbert]

I have been trying Alliant BLACKmz as BP is getting hard to get here(lots of shops just will not stock it because it is a explosive and requires special storage for transport and storage of bulk lots + it is not a big seller here)The BLACKmz is showing very good results with 1.9ccLee dipper (24gr)and 2.2cc(28gr) lee dipper.This goes against the loading advice which states that it preforms best with heavy compression(I tryed this and it just would not group)Has any one ellse tryed BP subs and what hase been your experiance.I have not croyed these loads as yet but they seem to have the trajectory of 40 grs of FF BP and it is very acurate in my AS Spencer with the relined barrel

[Jack Wagon]

Herbert:   There is a favorable review of Alliant Black MZ in this months Rifleman. I use Jim Shockeys Gold, ( same as APP) because it was easier to get and meter than black. I have found it accurate and extremely easy to clean up brass and gun with just water. I have heard Alliant is made by American Pioneer. My load for my converted M1865 Spencer is 35gr 3F Shockeys Gold, Rapine 520375 with a little Lee liquid alox for lube. I have found this to be a great load for my gun, with ease of clean up and no special powder throw equ. a big plus.  JW

[Herbert]

One thing I forgot to ask is about lube for BLACKmz,on the botle is states not to use lube,this seems a bad idear to me,does any one know the reason for this.I would like to try other subs but over here you use what you can get and the only other one I have tryed is Prydex and I did not like it at all

[Jack Wagon]

Herbert, Shockeys Gold states on the bottle " use no lube", but I experienced barrel leading with no lube. I have found Lee Liquid alox has worked the best for me so far. APP does not like BP lubes like SPG and most smokeless lubes I have tried. When you are done shooting, throw your brass in a jar of water and when you get home they will be clean. Good luck with your experiments.   JW

[Trailrider]

What about the old Lyman black 50/50 Alox/beeswax? Anybody tried that lately? Can you still get it?

[Jack Wagon]

Herbert, Most bullet lubes will create fouling with ascorbic acid based powders like APP and Black MZ and defeat it's clean burning properties. I hand apply a little melted Lee Alox and run the bullet through the sizer. My load of 35gr by volume of 3F Shockeys Gold is just slightly compressed and shoots accurate and clean with  a standard WWLR primmer. Keep us posted on your test results.   JW

[Herbert]

My experiance so far is the same as yours ,for lube I have found a few drops of LEE Liquid Alox shaken in a container so there is a very thin coating of lube to be the only lube that gives consitency(strangly bees wax and olive oil keeps the barrel cleaner but acuracy goes of after 3 shots)I have found that the 2.2cc diper gives the best acuracy at 200meters,the 1.9cc best at a 100meters for some reason. but not by much(I will be useing the 2.2cc dipper which by volume is close to 35gr of BP)I am useing the NEI 395 gr Spencer bullet and the Rapine 375 gr bullet with the back greese groove removed(strictly a LA bullet)booth sized to .516 for a ,514 goove barrel.Booth have given very good acuracy in my rifle ( a AS relined barrel to 1 in 36 inches)I have been useing CCI LPP and CCI BR2 P,booth seem to have equal acuracy but difrent points of impact

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
The American Pioneer Powder works with smokeless lube . The good thing about that is you only need one bullet for shooting smokeless or BP sub . If you can't get black powder you have another option with the subs .

[Jack Wagon]

As far as bullet lube goes, I've read the Lee's water based case resizing lubricant works good for low pressure loads. I mixed some with water and tumbled lubed some pistol bullets to shoot over APP. It goes on a little milky but dries clear and the bullets are not sticky, just a little waxy feeling. This stuff is really easy and pleasant to use and being water based it should be a good fit with APP. If I get favorable results with the pistol, I'll try it with the Spencer.  JW

[Herbert]

As far as bullet lube goes, I've read the Lee's water based case resizing lubricant works good for low pressure loads. I mixed some with water and tumbled lubed some pistol bullets to shoot over APP. It goes on a little milky but dries clear and the bullets are not sticky, just a little waxy feeling. This stuff is really easy and pleasant to use and being water based it should be a good fit with APP. If I get favorable results with the pistol, I'll try it with the Spencer.  JW

That sounds like it should work,I have tryed some SACO & LYMAN pistol lube ,but they leave a very thin tary residue in the barrel and acuracy goes off after 3 shots,on the plus side it stops leading,the LLA seems to be the best so far butt it still leaves slight leading in the barrel though it does not seem to deminish acuracy.Looking forwards to your results with the case lube

[ssb73q]

Hi Herbert, IMO the caution about not using lube is because some of the lubes contain water. I have preloaded a number of 1858 Remington cylinders the night before shooting with lubed felt wads between the Black MZ powder and ball and didn't have any issue with ignition the next day.

I really like the Black MZ powder. It makes as much smoke as BP and leaves little fouling. My 42nd shot fired as easily as my first and changing cylinders was never an issue because of fouling. I can only go 24-30 shots with BP before my Remy starts to gum up. While I currently always strip down my BP guns after shooting, clean in hot water, and dry in an oven, I am now thinking of only doing the cylinders and barrel after using Black MZ.

I think that some of the negative reports on Black MZ in long guns is that the irregular grain size of Black MZ makes doing consistent compression difficult in a rifle. A good pistol cylinder loading press provides excellent compression where shot to shot variability is minimized.

The only negative I have found using Black MZ was that I needed to open up the entrance before the valve in my powder flask because the large irregular Black MZ grains don't flow as easily as BP, Pydrodex, or Triple 7.

I really like Black MZ and will soon be trying it in .45 Colt loading for my Colt SAA. I had always loaded smokeless powder in my Colt SAA because I didn't want to have to do BP like cleanups with such a valuable gun. The Black MZ may minimize that concern and allow the fun of filling my woods with BP like smoke using the Colt.

Regards,
Richard