*** Photos Added *** Old Spencer & Rolling Block found in France

Irish Bob · November 13, 2012, 12:03:04 PM

Hi Guys, I am in France but English and found your forum on the net - great place! I have inherited 3 guns, 1 I know about but 2 (one a Spencer) I need help on. If you paste the link below into your browser there are pics of all.

https://picasaweb.google.com/subsonic40grain/November92012?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLGbqoyb1fmTeA&feat=directlink

One (with the ramrod) seems to be a .58 cal centrefire (not marked as any calibre so I slugged the barrel to find out). No markings at all other than on the topstrap:-

'Remingtons (can't read next bit) USA'
Pat May 3d Nov 15th 1864 April 17th 1866

Has 'US' stamped on top of Buttstock plate. Barrel is 29 1/4 long. Looks like a rolling block action.

The other is marked Spencer (can't read next bit) and underneath Rifle Co. stamped number 16515. No other markings except a weird stamp on the wood. No barrel markings but looks like a .50 cal? and a rimfire.

(Photos added by Two Flints)

I would love to get an original brass cartridge for each. If any of you experts has any info I would love to hear from you. With many thanks in anticipation.

Irish Bob

Herbert · November 13, 2012, 05:17:37 PM

Your Spencer carbine is a Springfield converted 1860 Spencer to 56-50.The cartouche on the stock is inspector Thomas J.Shepard,the Stabler cutt-off and srew are missing(these can be obtained from S&S firearms in the US,ask for the Springfield type)These carbines were shiped to France in the early 1870s and were taken by the Prussians as war booty and were put on the surplas market in the late 19th century.It seems to be in very good condition.The French rifle is a Chassepot rifle,these started life as needle fire rifles and were the main battle rifle for the French during the Franco Prussian war,they were later modified to fire center fire cartridges,as yours apears to be.France also bought Remition rolling blocks for the war,I am not sure which modle this one is without a bit of reserch,other may be able to chime in here

Arizona Trooper · November 13, 2012, 07:53:35 PM

What is the approximate caliber of the Rolling Block? From the rear sight, tang markings and extractor, it may be a conversion of a US Civil War musket. It should be 58 caliber with either a 36" or 39" barrel. Unfortunately, it appears to have been converted into a sporter or a shotgun. These are pretty uncommon. I've only seen one 39" barrel version that was still in it's Remington Armory configuration, and it was very rough. Other than the modifications, yours looks fantastic. Try contacting the Remington Society for more information.

Mannheim Bob · November 15, 2012, 01:20:34 PM

Where are you in France?

I am in Wiesbaden and have both a Spencer and a Rolling Block. Nice Gras (Chassepots modified to fire 11mm brass cartridges), it looks to be a navy model with brass hardware.

I can make up a dummy round for the Spencer in .56-50 if you like.

What is your Spencer rifle's serial number? Mine is in the 6,000s

Irish Bob · November 15, 2012, 03:19:58 PM

Many thanks! I am in Provence. The serial number on the Spencer is stamped 16515. I hate to say it but the more I look at the rolling block the more I want to fire it as opposed to the Spencer! I cannot find much information on a .58 rolling block (virtually nothing on the net) but I think a 16 gauge brass shotgun shell cut down should fit the chamber. I need to do more reasearch on it but if any of you have info on the .58 I would be very grateful to hear from you. Thanks to 2 flints for posting my pictures - VERY much appreciated.

Herbert · November 15, 2012, 05:09:54 PM

Is the Reminton rifle or smooth bored,Reminton did make 16-20ga RB shotguns,if it is rifled some were fitted up for the 577 Snider round in by Reminton for the British and other european breachloading rifle trials ,if this is the case try 24ga shot shells for size(if it is a .577 Snider chambe you will need dies to form the cases),many european countries used the Reminton RB and it could have been modifyed by any number of gunsmiths

Irish Bob · November 16, 2012, 03:35:27 PM

Yes it is rifled. I figured a 24 bore case would fit. I tried a few odd cases today, I didn't have a 24 as its an odd size here but the 20 was very nearly there. I need to find some 24 brass. There is a source in the US http://www.buffaloarms.com/Brass_Brass_shotgun_shells_pr-3832.aspx but kinda pricey for me. Anyone stateside got a few cases to spare?

Mannheim Bob · November 16, 2012, 05:17:48 PM

Reimer Johannsen in Germany carries CBC brass cases.

I have a book on Rolling Blocks, so let me look at it and see what I can find out. I'll be shooting my Rolling Block tomorrow at the range...

G.W. Strong · November 28, 2012, 09:47:38 PM

Quote from: Irish Bob on November 16, 2012, 03:35:27 PM
Yes it is rifled. I figured a 24 bore case would fit. I tried a few odd cases today, I didn't have a 24 as its an odd size here but the 20 was very nearly there. I need to find some 24 brass. There is a source in the US http://www.buffaloarms.com/Brass_Brass_shotgun_shells_pr-3832.aspx but kinda pricey for me. Anyone stateside got a few cases to spare?

I have quite a few 24 gauge brass shotgun shells lying about here. Many of them are ones that failed in my early attempts to form them in to 577/450 Martini Henry cases. I got better in the end and they started coming out well. However in the process I screwed up a few. The base ends are fine out the the length of a spencer cartridge. The only problem I see is the rim is a different size than my original spencer cartridge. 28 gauge might be a better fit. If you want some 24s I can hook you up. Just let me know if you want some.