1866 Problem solvers?

[longinosoap]

Got a Uberti 1866 in 44WCF. I have spent the last 2 days going back all 26 pages on this forum reading everything I could find on the 66 as well as the 73 and the 60 Henry.

The problem-As I lever the gun fast, every so often the carrier block would not drop down when the lever was closing and it would get hung up on the bolt. Have to push up on the block from underneath to lever the gun. Have to close the lever with a lot of force to get the block to drop down.

On my 73 and Henry, the carrier block drops down about the last inch of lever closure. I need to mention this 66 was built in 1972. I bought it used and had this problem when I got it.

Diagnosis-Reading all the posts pertaining to this type of problem, it is a timing issue. One post recommended filing the sides of the bolt so the carrier would clear. I am not that knowing when it comes to breaking a gun apart so I filed the insides of the block instead so it would clear the bolt. This has helped a lot but I still have the problem. I now do not have to close the lever as hard in order to get the carrier to fall. But it still does not close like my 73.

Solutions in the following order-1. Replace 40 year old lever and carrier springs with Slixsprings from Longhunter.
2. Replace lifter arm and carrier block
3. Replace 40 year old lever

Am I on the right track? I want to spend as little as possible and keep the gun as original as I can. I was thinking I would take one step at a time to see if it corrected the problem. Would you change the order of any of my solutions? Or is there another fix?

Thanks
Soap

[Abilene]

Have you checked to see that the carrier spring screw is tight?  The earliest repro '66's had a lot of different dimensions from current guns and many current-production parts won't fit.  Is the carrier the same size as your newer guns?

[longinosoap]

Screws are tight. I have taken apart and put together 3 times in the last 2 days. Have not compared the parts though.

[Pettifogger]

Check the OAL on your ammo.

[longinosoap]

Carrier block is shorter than the 60 Henry from '96 and the 73 made in 2000. Is the carrier block in the newer 66 models shorter than those two guns? Or will I have to find a supplier who might have this shortened block? I have a sneaky feeling that all three models have pretty much the same parts. I have not taken either of the other two guns apart to check the length of the springs.

I don't think OAL is relevant because it hangs up when the magazine is empty and I am just cycling the lever like after cleaning or trying to figure out what the problem is.

Thanks. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Pettifogger]

What is the measurement for the length of your carrier?  You are at about the dividing line between the old Ubertis and the new ones.  Does your receiver have a notch in the top just above the chamber?  If you have an old Uberti, there are no replacement parts.

[longinosoap]

Yes, it has a notch about 1/16", about the difference in length between this carrier and the ones on the newer guns. I figure that tells me there are no parts available.

What about the lever spring and carrier spring? Do you know if they are different in length from the newer models? If they are, can the newer Slixsprings be modified somehow to fit? I hate to take apart the other guns to see since they are working well right now. I go by the motto, "If it ain't broke..."

Thanks for your help. Saves me time and money ordering a new block.

[Pettifogger]

Yep, you have an old one.  There are no parts available although springs can often times be modified.  You say you have a 73.  Remove the side plate screw, remove one of the side plates and look inside and measure the springs.  I've got an old 66 in .38 Special, but don't know where it is right now.  First thing to do is take apart your 66, examine all the parts and see if there is anything wrong.  Slix Springs are weaker than the stock springs so they won't cure a cycling problem.  The gun has to be operating smoothly and correctly before the Slix Springs will help. 

[longinosoap]

Thanks for the info. Guess I will uncover the 73 and compare the spring length. Since there is only $4 difference between the Slix and the stock springs, thought I would go with the upgrade. But what you said makes since so if the springs are the same will order stock springs from VTI and go from there.

[longinosoap]

Broke down the 73 today. Lever and carrier springs are close enough where I can get new ones to fit. Carrier, however is a no go. I was able to bend the carrier spring about .01 and that seemed to help the timing. Did notice that the "nipple" on the carrier spring that rides on the cam of the lifter was worn flat and no longer round like it probably was 40 years ago.

I think new springs are in order but still considering the Slixsprings from Longhunter. If they don't work in the 66 may swap them into the 73 and use the 73 springs in the 66.

[Coffinmaker]

As we have noted, your rifle was manufactured with parts and dimensions there are no replacements for.  Gotta work with whar you have.
The Carrier Block is initially started down by the lever and then powered to full down by the spring.  Powder residue on the carrier, in the mortise, a burr, a sticking magazine follower or spring problems can cause the carrier to stop and jam the rifle.  IF this is a new problem, what was the last thing you did to the rifle???
If you cannot fit new springs or correct the problem by undoing what you did last, you may have to add "positive slam down" whether you want to or not to keep the rifle functioning.
Keeping Uberti rifles, or original Winchesters as "original" as possible is not wise, IF the gun is going to be shot a lot.  Overly heavy springs will cause them to "eat" their internal moving parts too quickly.
With out "positive slam down" switching to SlixSprigs will only make the problem worse.

Coffinmaker

[longinosoap]

Thanks for that information. The gun came to me with this problem. I have taken it apart numerous times with the intent of trying to correct the problem. So far I have used 400 grit paper on the outside of the carrier along with some light filing. I have filed the inside of the carrier to give more clearance to the bolt. I managed to bend the spring about .01. I have cleaned all internals using Ballistol.

I have not done anything to the magazine since it hangs up when I am levering the gun with no cartridges. It is better than when I got it but still need to "positive slam" it as you say, but not nearly as hard as before.

So should I stay with the standard "factory" springs from say VTI and see if they correct the problem? I am building a new shop so have not looked at it the last 2 days or ordered any parts. But our first shoot is coming up in a week and a half.

[Coffinmaker]

I'd suggest you get together with your local gun plumber, who is familiar with the toggle link rifle and have the timing checked and add positive slam down to the gun.  For the longevity of action parts, eventually you will want to go with lighter springs.  After you resolve the problem with the carrier block,

Coffinmaker

[Steel Horse Bailey]

... And use a GOOD lubricant, not Ballistol.

Ballistol is a great product - don't get me wrong, but it is NOT a great lube, nor does it claim to be.  I'd suggest some Gun Butter or some of the newer lite gun grease products or even BreakFree/Tri Flo/RemOil.   The Teflon in those products works well.  They are MUCH better - Ballistol is a very lightweight oil but not a heavy-duty oil or grease.

Just my 2 cents worth.  Yer mileage may vary.  MANY will tell you how long they have used Ballistol and how good it works.  I use mine to make Moosemilk (for BP cleaning & minor lubing) - which it does VERY well.

[longinosoap]

I am having a smith look at it that was recommended by a guy at our club. Will deliver it this weekend. He said that if he cant get a part he will "make the son-of-a-*****". Appreciate all the advice. Now know what to look for when buying used guns and have learned a lot about toggle links.