Anybody familiar with this company?

[Camille Eonich]

Good thread!  I'm learning a lot.


Sounds as though he is going through all of the steps that proper case hardening requires and is doing it all right but not actually jacking the temperature up enough to make the final product as hard as some would expect from case hardening.  So technically it is case hardening but technically it's not that much harder than before it was treated.


Am I right?  Did I win the cookie?

[3Fingers_Murphy]

Howdy 3 Fingers,

I used to do a Lot of colorcase when Ravens Roost Restorations was in business and up until the current economic situation I taught Colorcase among other things at Lassen Gunsmithing school. Since our merger with Kirst Konverter, we are not doing restorations anymore and I just colorcase for my personal custom work.

Personaly, I have not seen case color thicknessses in the "teens" and when I was teaching, my students and I cut open a lot of steel blocks to measure the the thickness of the case. Be aware I am talking about "Color" casehardened and not just "casehardened"....casehardeing without color can be harder deeper.

Pretty sure your No.1 with the French Grey finish was casehardened and would have a deeper hardness than a Colorcased gun. Besides whats the point of Colorcasing it and then polishing off the color?

You can see some of my work here.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,30884.0.html
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,39585.0.html
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,34383.0.html

Raven

Raven,
Very NICE!
I didn't realize you are doing your own color case hardening. Very nice work. I just looked on your web page and case hardening is not listed as a finish, do you have a price list for it?

I was talking about two completely different rifles. My No. 1 with the French Gray finish won't ever be case hardened while I'm alive. It has the heat treatment from the factory and it was engraved, plated and lightly buffed on the high areas. French gray is a matte nickel finish. Mine is darker in the relief area.

With the rifle I sent to Turnbull  I asked about engraving the case hardened receiver. They suggested I have it engraved before case hardening and getting it silver or gold filled afterwards if I wanted contrast because it couldn't be engraved with standard tools. I asked how deep and how hard, they told me very hard and it was somewhere in the teens deep. I didn't have it engraved.
Murphy

[Twitchy]

Raven,
Thanks for the info.  This is a very good thread. I have been very interested in color casing for several years and have read evrything I could find about it.  The double gun journal article is the best source of instruction/info on how its really done.  My interest lies primarily in the cosmetics of color casing as I suspect most of the rest of us are too.  Thanks for helping clarify a few things I have learned a lot.

[Slickshot]

JUST READ - Possible questions about color case hardening by Doug Turnbull.


I DO NOT HAVE MUCH KNOWLEDGE ON THIS SUBJECT, but would like to add something to this discussion nonetheless.


The question I pose is THIS: Why would/should one actually harden a gun frame that's already been hardened in the past?  Could it make it dangerous or susceptable to shattering when fired? 

With my current knowledge albeit quite limited on this subject - this would really make sense to me.  I did have a hammer mounted firing pin break on me because it was too hard.

Slickshot

[Raven]

Very NICE!
I didn't realize you are doing your own color case hardening. Very nice work. I just looked on your web page and case hardening is not listed as a finish, do you have a price list for it?

Thanks Murphy. We no longer Colorcase commercialy, when we did our prices were compairable to Turnbulls. I got very tired of polishing guns that didn't need polishing ( every customer says their gun is in Great shape an dosen't need polishing.....I've never seen an old that didn't ) Now I just do it for my personal projects.

The question I pose is THIS: Why would/should one actually harden a gun frame that's already been hardened in the past?  Could it make it dangerous or susceptable to shattering when fired? 

The only reason to reharden a part that is allready hard is to Restore the part to like NEW (or modify the part). When professionals do this they first Anneal the part so that it is soft, then it is casehardened or color casehardened. After annealing but before hardening is when people should have guns engraved.....makes for a much easier job for the engraver. Generaly mild steel will not shatter but if to hard or stressed they can definately crack.
4140 should be left to the professionals DO NOT do any backyard exoeriments trying to colorcase 4140. 4140 will shatter if not handeled correctly. I would bet that Doug Turnbull did some major consultation with a metalurgist before he offered colorcased 4140 to the market because the liability is huge.

Raven