A proper coat, circa 1870

[1961MJS]

Hi

The bottom picture of Al Sieber appears to be what I'm after.  Shawl collar and it appears to be double breasted.  I'll look in my Al Sieber (autobiography I think) and see if there's a decent picture.  A second picture taken at the same time looks even better.

I worry about comments made here and elsewhere, that many of the Old West pictures are posed in a photographic studio.  The second picture of Al appears to be posed, but not "prepared".  It would appear to be something he wore regularly.

I'm attempting to work up an outfit to wear and blend in.  Oklahoma only has SASS, but I'm close enough to Kansas to shoot both GAF and NCOWS, so I'm working on both an 1873 Infantry and 1870's up townie, Scout, or Cowboy. 

Thanks  

[James Hunt]

1961MJS: Great, good luck. In my opinion it is not about SASS, or GAF, or NCOWS - all fine organizations - rather it is about what gives you satisfaction. I even shoot on occasion and I have stood next to guy's who in my opinion look like Howdy Doody, but they were having a great time. For me it is more about history, to Howdy I probably looked like a homeless guy. Unless you are portraying living history to the public, where you have a duty to get it right, it is just different levels of the same hobby. That is what I enjoy about the people in NCOWS, basic rules of authenticity and an opportunity to get better at the history aspect.

Have fun.

[1961MJS]

1961MJS: Great, good luck. In my opinion it is not about SASS, or GAF, or NCOWS - all fine organizations - rather it is about what gives you satisfaction. I even shoot on occasion and I have stood next to guy's who in my opinion look like Howdy Doody, but they were having a great time. For me it is more about history, to Howdy I probably looked like a homeless guy. Unless you are portraying living history to the public, where you have a duty to get it right, it is just different levels of the same hobby. That is what I enjoy about the people in NCOWS, basic rules of authenticity and an opportunity to get better at the history aspect.

Have fun.

Hi

Shooting is almost always fun.  Since GAF allows it, I'll probably start shooting Staff officer because I have a nice 7.5 inch Cavalry SAA, and a pretty good squared top, Silver Mist Cavalry hat to go with it. 

I can actually use the John Ford Reference Library...   

Thanks

[Oregon Bill]

James, any idea of the vintage of those two photos you posted? I agree with MJS that the first photo was shot in a studio, but Sieber is wearing his own clothes, as are the two boys in the tintype I posted above.
There seems to be a weight and hand to the fabric in the coats in those photos that I don't often recognize today. Guess I need to learn more about fabric too ... sigh ...

[James Hunt]

Oregon Bill; I don't have dates for the above images, although the top  one is identified as being at San Carlos. Problem is that Al was associated with that reservation from the early 70's to near turn of the century. I would say the top one would be during his later years just from the appearance of his face, and his coat. I am guessing the bottom one is earlier, again from his appearance and clothing. Below is one of Al that is dated 1874.



I understand what you are saying about the appearance of the clothing and also agree that is probably related to the fabric used, I don't know enough about waft and weave and all that stuff to comment, need to read Beth Gilgun's  book again. Below are a group of fellas representing different periods, note the fella on the far right you may know, that sack coat does not look like something from the Mens Warehouse does it? it is probably due to the fabric which is a linen wool blend characteristic of the 19th century.

[Oregon Bill]

James, appreciate the thread and both photos. The 1874 photos is instructive. Al is wearing lined riding trousers, and apparently, no vest. The heft of the fabric of his wide-lapel coat is stout, but not as heavy as that of the coat worn by my boy on the right in the original tintype up top.  Looks like a wool shirt he's wearing, with -- possibly -- a wool or cotton union suit under? Fun to speculate.
You hang with a fine crowd. That's a handsome sack coat you are wearing. Have to admire the gent second from left for not being afraid to wear what looks like a modified pork pie hat. Those and other low-crowned and narrow-brimmed hats were much more prevalent in the period than most re-enactors are willing to admit or wear (including yours truly ...).

[The Elderly Kid]

The unique hat in the first picture reminded me of turn-of-the-century pictures (often caricatures) of Italian immigrant men wearing narrow-brimmed, very high-crowned hats, often dented or worked to a pointed crown. Think Chico Marx (I know he was Jewish, but the character he played was supposed to be Italian).

[1961MJS]

Hi

I found this in the Steamboat Arabia pbase listing:



I REALLY need to go there and look around.

Later

[Oregon Bill]

Mike, I bought a book on the Arabia but it didn't have nearly the photographs I was hoping for. That's a good'n.

[dusty texian]

That is a good photo. This is a very interesting subject. I have just picked up a black wool coat that look's just like the one in the photo. Except for the pockets. Am in the process of having the pocket flap's made and that photo has helped .Thank's ,,,,,,Dusty

[Skeeter Lewis]

Over here in England, the pea-jacket or donkey-jacket is still sometimes worn. Have a look at this -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Menswear-Military-Breasted-Business-Outerwear/dp/B00G3DDXXO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ap_3/280-5196515-0118667

BTW, I see that the Arabia pea coat buttons the 'wrong' way.

[dusty texian]

I noticed that the Arabia coat buttoned on the wrong side. Or is it that the lappel is just flapped over ,and the coat not buttoned? I dont know. I am looking for button's to use as replacement's on my coat. It came with 1" blk. plastic. Would black horn be correct? ,,,,,Dusty

[Major 2]

Horn , wood, even shell ,  hard rubber had begun to be used
Cloth covered and metal ....

I found buttons on E bay...

[dusty texian]

This is the coat that I am converting. Used the wrong word in my other post,the coat is not exactly like the one on the Arabia. But somthing like. Plan on putting flap pocket's on lower front.And changing the button's to a single row of 4 or 5 ,about 1" black horn, or somthing like this. The vent in the back is already closed. Do you feller's think this would look proper for mid 1870s to mid 1880s period on the Texas frontier town's ? Any help would be appreciated,,,,,,,Dusty

[Oregon Bill]

Sure looks like a handsome article to me, Dusty, but can't vouch for period authenticity. It seems right.

[1961MJS]

Hi Y'all

I cruised through Liberty Missouri on Thursday afternoon.  Jean measured me for a civilian winter coat, that will look at least similar to the picture I posted from the Arabia museum.  Chocolate Brown, heavy wool with a canvas liner, two exterior pockets, one interior, shawl collar.  I asked for a guess on price and it was substantially less than Quartermaster Shop.  I don't have a clue when I'll see it, but SPRING is here anyway.

Later

Mike

[Grenadier]

One can often find original buttons on Ebay for good prices.

[River City John]

Here's another nice coat:
http://www.riverjunction.com/Coat--Our-Best-Stripe-Blanket-Mackinaw--Wool--Heirloom_p_1846.html

As these are all made to order, you could ask them to leave off the upper slash pockets and just have two plain flapped pockets.

RCJ