Campbell/Randall Lockstitch

Massive · November 29, 2011, 08:19:12 PM

Ok, so the Adler 205 is about 25% Cobra. I can also get a Campbell Lockstitch for about 70% of Cobra. I put it that way because not being in the US my numbers are a little different.

Would a Campbell Lockstitch be any good for holsters? Or even a Radall and an Adler VS a Cobra? Good thing about quality second hand is the resale is pretty much there. The Adler would be flexible, and the Randall powerful and able to do Linen. Any ideas?

Massive · November 29, 2011, 09:16:48 PM

If you don't have the Randall, I would still be interested if you would want one...

Cliff Fendley · November 29, 2011, 10:07:07 PM

Well they were used starting in the 1880's on all sorts of leather gear. I've heard the needle and awl stitchers are a little temperamental. I'm getting a Landis 3 from a friend of mine who doesn't get along with it too well so I'll soon find out I guess. He wound up getting an Artisan and said these newer designs are much more user friendly. It is one beast of a machine that's for sure.

I'm going to try and get it set up with linen thread for money belts and such.

That sounds like a good deal on the Campbell if it's in good shape but I would be afraid of one if I didn't know anything about it. New refurbished Campbell's from Campbell Bosworth are about double of a Cobra 4. The Landis I'm getting had been refurbished when my friend got it and the machine dealer that did it has offered to help me get it sorted out with the linen thread if I have any trouble. Which I'm counting on

The guys lives about 5 hours from me and I see a road trip in the future

Massive · November 29, 2011, 10:30:24 PM

Thanks!

From what I hear, I probably missed out on the Adler. It was too good a deal, but I didn't move on it fast enough. The guy with the Randall has a lot of them. And seems to know how to referb them. Tempermental would not be my favorite part of owning one.

He also has a lot of Pearson 6s, but does not recommend them for my use, particularly.

outrider · November 30, 2011, 06:58:48 AM

Massive,

Go to the Ferdco website...they have a section for used equipment....it's like a bulletin board for their customers...but there is often some good equipment on there for alot less money

cavsgt · November 30, 2011, 08:30:58 PM

Got about 25 yrs. running a Campbell in a on again off again situation. One of the few awl-needle machines that will run even if you let it set for a period of time. Our Union Lockstitch was a bear to get running if it was not used everyday.
The Campbell was on lease from Campbell Bosworth and ran virtually trouble free through the whole time period. In my opinion they are the best machine available.
In order to do really nice work you need to have a needle feed so that there is no presser foot tracks on the reverse side. The only machine that we kept when retiring and selling the shop was a Sutton Landis 105. It is versatile but leaves a presser foot track like I beleive the Adler will. I really miss the big Campbell but do not do enough saddle work to justify it.

Cliff Fendley · November 30, 2011, 10:23:25 PM

You think the Landis 3 will work out for what I'm wanting to do with linen thread on period leather? They look dang near like a Campbell but I'm told it's just a little bigger actually.

ChuckBurrows · November 30, 2011, 10:49:25 PM

Cliff - I've used all three brands mentioned above at one time or another and depedning on the individual machine of coures, I'd rate the Randall #1, the Landis 3 just slightly behind, and the Union lockstitch as a distant #3.

Like cavsgt, the Unions I worked with were a bear to keep in time and I turned the air blue many a day for that reason, especially if changing thread weights - best bet with them (and IMO any needle.awl stitcher) is to set them up for one thread weight and leave it. I used Barbour's 5 Cord almost exclusively - heavy enough even for light saddler and harness yet still light enough for smaller/finer projects such as belts and holster. Also like cavsgt I found the randalls to be absolutely reliable day in and day out. The couple of Landis three I'ver worked with werfe close but not quite up to the Randall standard, but then again that's only experience with two machines of that make and they may have needed some better upkeep/replacement parts, whereas the Randalls I've run all were Campbell-Bosworth rebuilds except one.

IMO - get that Landis running right, use good thread, and wax, and you should be REAL happy,,,,,,,

Cliff Fendley · December 01, 2011, 07:14:38 AM

Thanks for the info Chuck, my friend is sending it up here from Georgia for me to try. The dealer he bought it from has offered to help me get it sorted out if I have trouble so I'll give it a go.

Massive · December 01, 2011, 01:04:14 PM

Where are you all getting the linen. Doesn't seem hard to find online, but there is usually a better source. Also, who has the needles and awls, and if searching for the needles and awls how does one describe them, what is the product number?

Will a Randall also run my 277 polyester? For starters if I got one, it would be my only machine.

How does one backstitch? I was watching this one video, and the guy just seemed to be leaving a long tag on the thread, so I guessed he was finishing by hand? If one had the awl offset, it would seem that it would cut an X in the leather as one ran it back so something like hand finishing would be necessary..

Cliff Fendley · December 01, 2011, 05:19:08 PM

I'll know more about it when I get to use it first hand. Chuck could better answer I'm sure but I don't think you can backstitch through the same holes. I don't think it has a reverse and it will cut the thread if you go back through the same holes. Some of the old leather products I've observed that were stitched with them look like they ran back beside it for a few stitches.

Campbell Bosworth has the thread, I have gotten my Barbours from them before but they told me they recommended a different brand of linen for machine sewing. I don't know for sure on the needles and awls but I've seen them somewhere for all the different machines. I'm pretty sure Campbell Bosworth and Weaver may have them. I know for sure Weaver has them for the Union.

I talked to Vernon Weaver last year about a Union but he advised if I was to buy one for me to come up and operate it with him for a day to get familiar with it. He said they probably make the best stitch of all the needle and awl stitchers but apparently require more tinkering to keep them running right.

I just happened to run up on this Landis, found out a fellow knifemaker had it sitting in his shop and he seldom uses it.

I'll probably pull my hair out before this is all over

cavsgt · December 01, 2011, 07:17:52 PM

When I get out to the shop will look around. I think that there is 8 or 10 lbs. of 4 or 5 cord lefthand in one of the boxes. Barbours was too agressive or course for our machines but great for hand sewing. Do not let them sell you on thread lube that must be heated as it is really messy. The liquid lubes are messy enough with out having the wax setting up all over the machine.

Cliff if you can get a union from Weaver they will help you set it up and have a kick-butt video for timing and maint. We have been dealing with Weaver since they started their wholesale business and have never had a problem. If you get a Union let me know as there is still a bunch of stuff in the shop for it.

Massive · December 02, 2011, 06:56:12 PM

Thanks for the tip Cliff, I found some needles in the Weaver Cat. though no prices. Am I correct in assuming that the Landis and Randall use the same needles?

Cliff Fendley · December 02, 2011, 07:23:06 PM

Even thought the Landis appears to be a close copy I don't think the needles and awls are the same. I'm pretty sure I've seen them listed separately.

Massive · December 02, 2011, 09:09:32 PM

Hmm. I hope not, the Union has a separate listing on Weaver, but the Randall does not. Nor does the Landis description suggest they will work on the Randall. I was just wishing it were so. I will have to look into this.

They are listed separately on the C/R website.

Cliff Fendley · December 05, 2011, 07:16:10 PM

Got the Landis No.3 today. Got it set up and running. Still playing and getting familiar with it. Need to order a manual. I'm pretty sure how to make stitch length and other adjustments but I'm going to leave as is until getting a manual. They have been running it with 277 nylon on thick material.

A local saddle and harness maker runs a Campbell, he's like me busy trying to get some orders done for Christmas but he said after the holidays he might be able to help me get it running linen if I have trouble.

Never been around a needle and awl machine, it's a pretty ingenious set up.

Massive · December 06, 2011, 03:25:02 AM

Good for you! I'm still trying to sweat out my seller, a little too rich for me. I have to say though, that while the main point is to get a machine to do the job, I also like the mechanism, does look neat.