Rule change, for comment : Milspec smokeless repeaters

[Niederlander]

It looks like there are a couple of Lee-Speeds on Gunbroker right now.  Unfortunately in "butchered" condition.  Drat!

[cpt dan blodgett]

Charles, I'm familiar with the Magazine Lee Metford (MLM) and Magazine Lee Enfield (MLE)  Is the CLLE one of these by another acronym?

FOr now, the weapons will be utilized as DESIGNED.  IE the MLM and MLE were not designed for Charger loading but later modified outside our milieu.  So no, you could not use stripper clips for these.  However, you do have the capability for magazine swapping with these, thats how they orginaly were meant to be used, though I'm told this is a rather clumsy operation.  But considering you have 8 or 10 round magazines, it might well be worth it. (Jack?)

I agree with all your points BTW.  It must be said that with all the bad/inaccurate press the Krag has accumulated over the years (THe US Army always seems to blame its weapons for its tactical failures!)  I was not sure just how competitive the Krag was.  Turns out I need'nt have worried.

Actually had we been smart enough to carry the Krag rounds loose point down in a pouch that a person could grab 5 and drop into the hopper the krag is fast. A guy in El Paso used to shoot a krag in high power matches.  His prefered load method was stand 5 round primer down on a 6 inch block of 2x4 grab the 5 rounds and throw them in the hopper.  He could reload faster than folks with a bolt gun using stripper clips.

Now, if anyone could figure out a fast way to load a Lebel!   

[Drydock]

Capt. Dan, thats how the 2 row mills belt works.  Reach down and grab a handful from the belt and drop them in.  I used to arrange them in groups of 5 on the belt, but I've found that even with a full belt, either hand seems to naturaly wrap around 5, rarely 4, sometimes 6, all of which work.   And the belt ensures they're all oriented properly.  The Krag and the two row belt are a system,  they work best together.

[Hangtown Frye]

The M1879 and M1885 Remington-Lee Navy rifles, as well as the M1882 Remington-Lee Army were indeed issued with spare magazines.  As noted above, Mills even manufactured a belt specifically for the Lee.  The one's I have seen are made with two pouches (for one magazine each) on each side in the front, with 30 loops for individual cartridges in the back for a regulation load of 50 rounds.

The magazines themselves seem to be fairly plentiful.  Back when I had several of the rifles I collected a good number of them so that I would have four spares for each rifle.  When I started they were going for $25 each, by the time I was finished they were at $65 each, and last I saw they were around $125 each, but still kicking around.  Perhaps they were just common on the West Coast though, since most of the Remington-Lee's seem to have been issued to the Naval Militia in California, Oregon and Washington after the adoption of the Winchester-Lee M1895, and I assume were sold as surplus from those stores at some point after 1900.

The system is an excellent one in fact.  In my experience the magazine change for a Remington-Lee is FAR quicker and easier than trying it on a Lee-Enfield, even though the design is approximately the same.  Since there is no other way to load the magazines other than removing them from the rifle however, it's pretty obvious that it was the preferred method of reloading the rifle.  However, when the magazine is removed from the rifle, a spring-loaded shelf pops out from the receiver allowing it to be loaded and fired as a very rapid single-shot, something which the conservative Ordnance officers looked upon with approval.

Per the US adoption of a Lee system, unfortunately in 1892 when the Army put out its request for submissions to the Magazine Rifle Board, Remington (which held the US Patents on the Lee system) was in deep financial straights, and I believe even in receivership, so they didn't manage to submit their proven design to the board.  Lee did submit two other designs (one being adopted by the US Navy in 1895), but sadly not the proven M1885.  Sad really, since it's a much better design than the Krag, as the Brits have long since proven.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Charles Isaac]

Some really great info in that post about Lees, Hangtown. Thank you.

Sad really, since it's a much better design than the Krag, as the Brits have long since proven.

You probably have no idea how funny I find the thought of some Lee wielding troopers showing up to a muster and showing the Krag shooters just how inferior their Norwegian design is!

[Niederlander]

Charles, I think the thing I hate most about the Krag is that rough, slow, awkward bolt.  That and the way you have to drop in each round so carefully so it doesn't jam!  

[Charles Isaac]

And the lack of variety of sights for the things too!