45 Colt brass thickness

[Buckshot Mitchell]

Howdy,
I'm looking for a comparison of wall thickness of different brands of 45 Colt brass. I know this information is out there, I even had it at one time. I usually load my smokey rounds in Winchester brass. Now I need more rounds than I have brass for. I have other brands but I looking for my best second and third choices. Any help or direction would be appreciated, thanks.
Buckshot Mitchell

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

What I do to get an approximate comparison is to weigh some cases of each headstamp.  If average weight is within a few grains, their capacity will be close to being the same. 

By assuming the outside dimensions are close due to SAAMI standards, any difference in weight will affect internal capacity.  I use a comparison of 8 grains of brass having the equivalent volume to 1 grain of smokeless powder.  I works for me with rifle cases, and I assume the same principle applies to pistol cases but I'm not sure about the volume comparison factor.

If you are loading Blackpowder, by observing the way the powder fits in the case will give you another way of comparing cases. In any event, if cases are that different you can work up a separate load for each headstamp, using the amount of powder compression as the constant.

There are others more technically minded than I that may have some better advice, but with pistol sized cases and BP it is hard to go too far wrong.

[john boy]

I usually load my smokey rounds in Winchester brass. Now I need more rounds than I have brass for. I have other brands but I looking for my best second and third choices

Mitchell, I have no idea where you are going with one of the most wierd  questions I have ever read, but in case this question is ever asked again, especially for the 2nd & 3rd choice for brass, I can just cut and paste for that person with nothing better to ask too

* 45 Colt SAMMI ... http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd45colt.jpg
Once Case Sample: Weight and Wall Thickness:
BHA - 116.8gr / 0.023
FC - 124.2 / 0.020
PMC - 114.5 / 0.024
R-P - 103.7 /0.022
W-W - 110.4 /0.024
Winchester - 105.7 / 0.019
Western - 110.8 / 0.021
Starline - 108.3 / 0.020
Top Brass - 116.2 / 0.023
Ten-X - 107.8 / 0.021
Bullseye - 108.3 /0.019
3-D - 111.2 / 0.021

BTW, what is your definition ...  "for my best second and third choices"?  And what is wrong with Winchester brass?  I have a friend that never cleans his 44-40 Winchesters, keeps a log how many times a box  of 50 are shot with smokeless powder and no splits.  Last count, he is up to 24

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

A similar question was asked on the SASS Wire not too long ago. So I grabbed a bunch of brass and my calipers and started measuring wall thickness at the neck.

These are the results I came up with. No guarantees, my samples were fairly small. I did find that with my samples at least, wall thickness did not vary much from brand to brand.

Winchester .010 - .011
Starline .010 - .011
PMC .011 - .012
Top brass .010
Remington Peters .011 -.012
PMC .010 - .011
CBC .010 - .011

Hornady .011 only one case to measure.

Overall, very little variation from brand to brand. I too used to believe that Winchester was the thinnest brass. But the brand spanky new Starline brass I just got from Starline is running the same as Winchester. This bears out what I have found with recent Starline 44-40 too.

PS: Note that these measurements are only representative of the case mouth. They are useful when determining wall thickness at the case mouth for determining what diameter bullet may be best. They are also useful in determining which brand of brass will expand better at the case mouth to seal the chamber. These measurements do not represent the case thickness further down the case, as most brass gets thicker the farther away from the case mouth you measure.

[Buckshot Mitchell]

 
John Boy,
I tried to send this reply this morning, but the work computer wouldn't let me.    I guess I wasn't very clear. I like to load in Winchester brass for my 66 rifle, as I have been told that the walls are the thinnest, to help prevent some of the blowback. I was starting to load for the next match and found out that after I pitched the split ones, I had less than I thought I had. I will be buying more, but I'm not sure I will be able to get more to replace them before I will need them. I wanted to go ahead and load enough rounds, that I might need, in case I can't get replace them soon enough. I have other brands of 45 Colt brass, but couldn't remember where to find the thicknesses. When I say second and third choices, I was referring to the wall thickness. The listing you have provided is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. As for "weird  questions", I'm full of them. I've been told I'm full of other stuff too. I hope this is clearer now.


Driftwood Johnson,
Thanks for your input and list also. I can use all of the help I can get.


Buckshot

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Buckshot, Howdy!

Many moons ago, when I was just starting to load BP cartridges, I called the Hornady "hot line" because I had questions regarding cases and projectiles to be used.  During the conversation, the Hornady factory engineer I was talking to told me that "within the industry,"  Winchester's brass alloy is considered to be the "softest."  This, in conjunction with case wall thickness would contribute to sealing a chamber well for BP rounds.  After hearing this tidbit of industry opinion, I called 2 other factory tech lines - Hodgdon/Winchester powder and Federal.  They agreed with the Hornady fellow.  That's when I decided to ... and did ... buy 2,000 new Winchester 45 Colt cases from the same lot.  I'm up to about 12 reloads [each] for most of the cases and I doubt I've lost more than 10 to splitting.  My normal loads are simple:  I use the best, heaviest projectile available - IMHO, the PRS 250 gr. BigLube (tm) boolit and propel it with a full case (filled to approx. 1/16" to 1/8" above the base of the bullet then compressed) of Goex 3F powder, (or whatever powder I can get) - which has, over the years included Elephant, Lidu, Pyrodex, and a couple more I forgot.  I also have, but haven't yet used, some Triple 7 BP substitute.  I hope to try some Scheutzen based on the good great reports from Driftwood Johnson, John Boy and others, as well as maybe some Swiss, but so far that seems to be much more expensive than my normal NCOWS and the occasional SASS shooting calls for, since I don't shoot BPCR.

I've used Starline brass, Remington, W-W, REM-UMC, Top Brass, Hornady, Speer, Federal and others as they appeared, and to make a long story short, they ALL have worked well (as pertains to sealing the chamber when fired) as long as I kept to the "rules for the least blowback" i.e. use the heaviest bullet with a heavy (within accuracy limits) charge and a good, firm crimp.  The use of Magnum primers is a matter of choice, but it seems to be of little advantage in normal shooting, without getting into the serious BPCR needs - of which I only know what I've read here and elsewhere ... I don't shoot any long range Big-Bore matches and have no 1st-hand experience.

Have fun!  And ... Keep yer powder dry!

[john boy]

I hope this is clearer now.

Thanks Buckshot - much clearer
OK, the choice of brass is yours and no one else but ...
*  One has to remember that the alloy composition of brass cases among the varies vendors are not all the same, but they are all close.
*  Straight wall cases like any other cartridge case will have work hardened metal that is the primary cause for splits if the cases are not annealed
*  As you can read, the wall thicknesses do not vary much between different brands because all the manufacturers adhere to SAMMI specifications.  That's why I posted the 45 Colt SAMMI case dimension link

So, IMHO -
*  Wall thickness variation between brands is not a major factor for the selection of a purchase
*  How the cartridges made by the vendor is the key:  quality production using drawn stock v lathe bored which nobody makes Colts using lathe bored

I buy and shoot nothing but Starline 45 Colt brass. None of the cases have ever been annealed.  Have used Starline's since I started CAS back in 2001 and am still reloading 2001 cases today.  I am pleased with Starline's quality production standards - Period!

[Bryan Austin]

Have used Starline's since I started CAS back in 2001 and am still reloading 2001 cases today.  I am pleased with Starline's quality production standards - Period!

I purchased 200 new cases two years ago for back-ups. I try to purchase once fired Winchesters when I can but for the $$$ Star-Line is the best!