Can't decide which bullet to use

Pitmaster · August 26, 2011, 03:56:22 PM

I'm picking up a new set of 2 Ruger Vaqueros and an 1894 in .45LC that will be dedicated to shooting BP only at SASS matches. I can't decide whether to use the:

1. J/P 45 Cal 210 grain Big Lube™

2. DD/PUK/ROA-II Big Lube®LLC 210 grain bullets

3. El Paso Pete Ultra Gamer 45 Caliber 150 grain.

Why would someone choose one over the other? Is there enough difference between the 3 bullets that I can actually notice the difference? I don't have a lot of experience recognizing the nuances between different powders and bullets in other calibers and shooting sports.

I do have a Star Sizer and .452 die that I use for .45 ACP if this makes any difference.

I appreciate any comments. I'm sure I will learn quite a bit.

Thanks in advance

Dick Dastardly · August 26, 2011, 06:09:44 PM

Howdy Pitmaster,

You may want to slug your barrels and mike the slugs. I'm thinkn' your RVs will measure .454 and the rifle may also.

Any of the bullets you mentioned will do the job, but the DD/PUK/ROA-II may do it best. That round really feeds well in anything including 1911s. This is becoming the bullet of choice for many black powder shooters that want one bullet that fills a lot of missions. Originally it was intended for the Ruger Old Armys, thus the ROA in the name. It turns out that this bullet handles a LOT of bp chores very well. It even shoots very well out of my lil Thompson Center Seneca 45 Cal muzzle loading rifle. The rebated base makes it a joy to load.

DD-DLoS

Cuts Crooked · August 27, 2011, 09:23:23 AM

Pit, Why do want to go with the lighter slugs?

I hesitate to disagree with DD, but if you're going to be using these loads in a rifle you will get less blow back with the 250 gr PRS Boolit.

Lucky R. K. · August 27, 2011, 10:34:19 AM

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on August 27, 2011, 09:23:23 AM
Pit, Why do want to go with the lighter slugs?

I hesitate to disagree with DD, but if you're going to be using these loads in a rifle you will get less blow back with the 250 gr PRS Boolit.

I agree with Cuts Crooked. Blow back was a problem with my '73 until I went with the 250 gr PRS. Sized to .452 with 32 grains of 3F Schutzen the rifle shoots clean. Any lighter loads of 45 Colt just do not shoot as clean.

The Pecos Pete works very well in my Ruger Varqueos. I bought the mold for my Old Armies but the bullet is great in the Varqueos.

Lucky

rickk · August 27, 2011, 11:53:51 AM

Pitmaster... did you pick up a couple of new "Vaqueros'" or a couple of "New Vaqueros"? You may find that the The "New Vaqueros", and quite possibly any new Ruger in 45 colt, will measure .4525 - .4530 throat diameter. If so, the .452 sizing die would sure be a good place to start. The older Rugers seemed to have a wider tolerance in the throat diameter.

No idea about an 1894.

I like the DD 250 grain Big Lube myself, but it is the only one I have tried. It works well in by Rugers and my Henry Big Boy rifle, so I have not found any reason to mess with anything else.

Paladin UK · August 27, 2011, 12:41:21 PM

Fer Pitmaster ...

FWIW..The DD/PUK/ROA-11 sat atop of 27 gns ffg 5gns Grits shoots spotlessly and I mean spotlessly in my 45LC Rossi #92

Paladin (What lurvs his #92

) UK

Springfield Slim · August 27, 2011, 03:48:27 PM

If the 1894 is a lever gun then the EPP's probably won't feed due to being too short. I don't remember if the DD/PUK has a crimp groove or not and the pics are not coming up on DD's website. If not then I would prefer the J/P or the PRS's.

Dick Dastardly · August 27, 2011, 07:09:57 PM

Howdy Slim,

With the new DD/PUK/ROA-II you crimp on the ogive just ahead of the driving band. Works great.

DD-DLoS

Pitmaster · August 28, 2011, 08:16:31 PM

The DD/PUK/ROA-II is the mold I was leaning towards. I decided to order some bullets from Whyte Leather Works to try first. I'll pick up the mold in a couple of months when it gets to be casting weather.

I generally load the shell with BP to the top and seat the bullets. I like things that go bang.

Montana Slim · August 28, 2011, 09:56:59 PM

Minority opinion here for sure......

Personally, no .45 Rifles....but, several of my pards shooting .45's with BP are recently moving UP in bullet weight - all the way up to 250 grain. Most seem to be using the Big-Lube design. Why the 250 grainer? - they are looking for a better seal...and yes, most of these chaps are using Marlins.

Based on their comments, I'm inclined to belive the Marlin .45 chamber varies a bit, rilfe-to-rifle, and tends to be oversize.

Most are shooting reduced loads for their revolvers...some using the Cowboy Special, since it's simple to discern a rifle cartridge from a revolver cartridge.

Just what I've heard.
Regards,

Slim

Pitmaster · August 29, 2011, 06:49:09 AM

I decided to go with the PRS and ordered 750 of them. I'll see how they work over the winter and then purchase a mould for spring casting.

Driftwood Johnson · August 29, 2011, 09:21:59 PM

Howdy

I don't have any rifles chambered for 45 Colt. Only 44-40.

But for my 45 Colt revolvers if I am loading 45 Colt I go with the 250 grain PRS Big Lube bullet.

If I want a little bit less recoil, I go with 45 Schofields loaded with the 200 grain J/P 45-200. It was invented by a couple of guys named Johnson and Peterson and I am very partial to it. It was designed specifically for shooting in my old EuroArms 1858 Remington when nothing but the 250 grain PRS was available. The 250 grain PRS in a 45 Colt cartridge was just a bit too much recoil in the Remmie, although it is no problem in my Colts.

If I did have a rifle chambered for 45 Colt I would only be using the 250 grainer. For the reasons stated, less blowback. You won't feel the recoil so much in a heavy rifle.

By the way, if you are loading them to the top you are using a bit more powder than you need and compressing it a bit more than you need. All you need is between 1/16" and 1/8" of compression. Anything more is overkill. I find that under the 250 grain PRS bullet a 2.2CC Lee dipper full of powder and leveled off is just about perfect.

wildman1 · August 30, 2011, 04:58:17 AM

So yer sayin 40g vibrated a tad so ya can squeeze it all in might be more than ya need? WM

Pitmaster · August 30, 2011, 06:23:15 AM

QuoteBy the way, if you are loading them to the top you are using a bit more powder than you need and compressing it a bit more than you need. All you need is between 1/16" and 1/8" of compression. Anything more is overkill. I find that under the 250 grain PRS bullet a 2.2CC Lee dipper full of powder and leveled off is just about perfect.

That's what I really do. I load .44 mag and .38 and use Lee Dippers. I don't remember which dipper off the top of my head but in each one a scoop fills the case to where I want it. Once my guns and loading supplies get here I'll sort it out. I wish the BP powder flowed through the powder measure on my Dillon to speed things up a little. Now I load just about Square Deal vs. 650 speed.

Springfield Slim · August 30, 2011, 02:13:22 PM

I load all my BP cartridges on my Dillon 550 with the Dillon powder measure with no problems.

Pitmaster · August 31, 2011, 06:06:09 AM

Springfield Slim,

I should probably qualify that I'm using Pinnacle FFFg for powder. I have 4 lbs left and as soon as its gone I will go straight to the real stuff. I went in on a case with 2 other guys. I wasn't quite as discerning then. When I recover financially from my recent purchase of these guns, loading supplies, and a previous belt/holster rig I may sell the powder I have and get a case of the real stuff. The Holy Black may load better. The Pinnacle seems to get ground up some and plugs the measure.

It seems to take a while to get the experience to have not have minor problems that frustrate me.