How many Grains in a CC ?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

.00000000000000000001 gr?
How would I know? I can't make one gr by volume with my hair. Last time I went to the barber, he just kinda waved the scissors at my head and called it done.

Cuts;  Did you get the Seniors' Discount from your barber?

[Pony Racer]

Sail 32 = all I know on accuracy is for the 1.0 cc loads I use lee dippers for with both my 44 russian and my 38 special loads.

I use 158 grain bullet in my 38s and I use 205 grain bullets in my 44 russians.

I can hit 100 yd cowboy plates - aiming center mass if i do my job every time with my rifles.

At 25 yds those same rounds have had enough "power" to kill steel targets (ie knock them over).

I have been using the dippers ever since I converted to the one true powder.

Now I do use the 4.3 cc dipper for my 43 spanish loads and can hit same plate out to 150 yds (have not tried anything further)with my 1879 Remington Argentine Military full length musket Rolling Block.

Accurate enough for me.

PR

[wildman1]

Ears? WM

[stoobers]

 

I think some clarification is in order.  There are TWO types of grains used in boolit sports.  DRY and FULID.

Dry grains are like dry ounces in that they are measured with a mass or weight scale.
Fluid grains (also called volumetric grains) are measured with a graduated cylinder like device (think of a syringe made of metal or something similar)

People are saying that there are a different number of grains in a CC.  This is true for DRY grains.  But there is always (or should always) be the same number of FLUID grains in a CC.  Black powder is called out for by FLUID (volumetric) grains, so the ratio between grains and CC's should be a fixed number.

I can't find that number either, but when I do, I'll post the number here.  Then the discussion can be closed.

[stoobers]

 

Disclaimer.  Take this data with a grain of salt.  Or maybe a grain of gunpowder.  These are just my findings.  Your science and math may give you different results.

THE ANSWER:
15.5 volumetric grains in a CC.

Ok.  I have done some measurements with my scale and verified the numbers with some other internet sources.  Here are my results.  The stuff about the 45 acp is very interesting and could be very useful.

1 weight grain of water = 1 weight grain (this is by definition)
1 volumetric grain of water = 1 weight grain (this is by definition, and is VERY IMPORTANT)
I am going to abbreviate 1 weight grain as 1 GN.
I am going to call a volumetric grain VGN and the weight of 1 VGN = 1 GN, but only for water.

86 GN = 5.7 grams (i measured this.  It is the weight of an empty 45acp case.  I used a 45 acp because it held 25 VGN of water when measured.  You can also use a 50ae because the VOLUME is 50 VGN and the weight is 166 GN.)

Using the good ol' y=mx + b equation we learned in junior high school, I get the number 15.09 as my slope.  Other measurements revealed higher values, closer to 15.80.  On average, assume 15.50 as your slope.  This gives an error of about 2.5%, which is extremely small for measuring such tiny numbers on a scale.

THAT MEANS:
15.5 VGN = 1 cc
aka
15.5 volumetric grains = 1 cc
15.5 weight grains of water = 1 cc

So if you fill a 1 cc measure with gun powder, NO MATTER WHAT POWDER, you will get 15.5 VGN of gun powder.

IN ADDITION, I found out some awesome rules of thumb that can be used for loading.
A  45 acp case holds 24 to 28 VGN.  Search through some cases and you will find a 25 VGN case.  That means you have found a highly accurate 25 grain measure for ANY GUN POWDER (by volume, not weight)

A 50ae case holds 50 VGN.  That means I have a highly accurate measuring scoop that holds 50 grains of ANY GUN POWDER (by volume, not weight)

I verified this data with the table given on:
http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

I used Pyrodex RS powder and found:
25 VGN weighs between 16 to 18 GN.  This is within 1.2% of the chart.
50 VGN weights 36 to 38 GN.   This is within 2.3% of the chart.

That means I can load my muzzle loader rifle with one 50ae of powder and have a 50 VGN load.
Or I can load my rifle with one 50ae of powder plus one 45acp of powder and have a 75 VGN load.

Its finally simple!!!!  And most importantly, repeatable!

[August]

Thanks, Stoobers.  Where were you when we needed you, four pages ago.

Good info.  Thanks again!!!

[Mako]

Thanks, Stoobers.  Where were you when we needed you, four pages ago.

Good info.  Thanks again!!!

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,28869.msg477784.html#msg477784

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,28869.msg478539.html#msg478539

[Seamus]

My dear ole Mother always said, "A pint's a pound, the world around, said the old woman as she measured the shot!"

[rickk]

Sadly Seamus, that appears to no longer be true.

If one orders a "pint" in the US, there is a really good chance that it will come in a 14 ounce glass.  Aint nothin sacred ?

If you look at a "pint" glass and the bottom appears really thick, it is a 14 ounce "pint glass".

There is a growing "real pint" movement to expose this scam.

[Grizhicks]

Last week, while loading some bullets; I was using a Lee 2.0 cc dipper and weighted 5 or 6 or them, and they all were between 33.4 & 34 grains, using FFG Goex.  So, that tells me that 1cc would be about 16.7 to 17.  Just the latest experience I've had. -- Grizhicks

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Sadly Seamus, that appears to no longer be true.

If one orders a "pint" in the US, there is a really good chance that it will come in a 14 ounce glass.  Aint nothin sacred ?

If you look at a "pint" glass and the bottom appears really thick, it is a 14 ounce "pint glass".

There is a growing "real pint" movement to expose this scam.

This is why many jurisdictions mandate approved glasses or mugs with an etched line to prevent detect short pours

[Mako]

Last week, while loading some bullets; I was using a Lee 2.0 cc dipper and weighted 5 or 6 or them, and they all were between 33.4 & 34 grains, using FFG Goex.  So, that tells me that 1cc would be about 16.7 to 17.  Just the latest experience I've had. -- Grizhicks

And as long as people weigh BP it will be just as you said, " Just the latest experience I've had."  It will be different every time you change powder or even lot to lot.  There is one thing in your loading regimen that will be the same last week as it will be a century from now.  That 2.0cc measure you were using will measure out  2.0cc of BP, regardless of brand, grain size or date.  That 2.0cc holds exactly 2.0ccs of water which weighs exactly 30.86 grains.

As much as people want to ignore the relationship between volume and weight in the English, Imperial or U.S. Customary Units systems, a grain volume is one grain of weight.  No one argues that 1cc of water weighs 1 gram, No one argues that 1 ounce volume of water weighs exactly 1 ounce by weight.  But for some reason when someone points out 1 grain volume weighs 1 grain many immediately cry foul, and refuse to listen.

When talking to European BP shooters they express their loads in CCs of powder.  If they weighed 2CCs of powder they would find it would be all over the map as well, in fact they would have reported the scoops of Goex 3Fg weighed 2.16-2.20 grams.  But they don't have the hangup we do with volume, they would just say they loaded up 2.0 CCs of Goex 3Fg.

~Mako

[cpt dan blodgett]

When you get right down to it if not using a scale on every round all reloading is done by volume.  Powder Measures, Charge Bars, or dippers all throw a certain volume of powder.  We may adjust things so that the volume thrown equals a particular number of grains. 

[litl rooster]

This is why many jurisdictions mandate approved glasses or mugs with an etched line to prevent detect short pours

This should be another 4 pages

[wildman1]

Ya tryin ta shorten this up Roo?  WM

[litl rooster]

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