Civil War Revolvers

[warbucks16]

Recently while reading about Custer's Battle againest Stuart at Little Round Top-Gettysburg, a question came to mind that I have been unable to find a good answer to.

Is there any data as too how many rounds a Civil War Cavalryman could fire before his revolver would jam due to build up from BP,
and secondly what did they use for lubrication, whale oil, vegetable oil  or mineral oil.

Any info would be appreciated.

Warbucks16

[St. George]

None that I've ever found.

Apparently - it wasn't something they tallied, and Civil War Cavalry combat was a saber and carbine affair much if not most of the time - the idea being surprise, shock and close-quarters combat.

They didn't fire the handgun nearly as much as is done in C&WAS - and engagements weren't long, drawn-out affairs - being fast-moving, bloody and swirling.

Cartridges were paper-wrapped - carried in a leather pouch.

Weapons maintenance consisted of using whatever lubricant as could be found - 'light oil' and sperm oil were preferred - the piece being cleaned with hot water after the action.

Must've worked - I've seen and handled a couple hundred Colts and Remingtons that went through the War and were carried later that were in excellent, well-maintained condition.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Trailrider]

While I have not read of any accounts of such, I would offer an opinion based on the general tactics practiced by the cavalry on both sides during the CW, as well as personal experience testing an original Whitney Navy .36 cal. revolver.

In the early part of the war, Federal (Northern) cavalry was primarily used for screening and escort duties. Only after 1863 was Union cavalry organized into large units for raids (Grierson's two raids, Kilpatrick's operations, etc.).  Cavalry generally fought as dragoons or mounted infantry. At Gettysburg, Gen. Buford's troops fought dismounted with breechloading single-shot carbines as their primary weapons. Custer's Wolverines were armed with Spencer Repeating RIFLES (not carbines), which they used to hold back Confederates until they ran out of ammo and had to withdraw.  

On the Confederate side, breechloading carbines were in short supply, except where they were obtained from Federal troops so-armed, or from Harper's Ferry Arsenal.  Many Confederate cavalry were armed with muzzleloading shotguns, plus revolvers. Some of the special units, like Mosby's Virginia Volunteer cavalry, and some of the irregulars carried a number of revolvers, on their persons and on their saddles, perhaps up to six at a time.  Why? Because few, if any revolvers were issued with more than one cylinder.  Yes, they were issued paper cartridges and caps, but that was for reloading when time permitted.  If you've ever tried to change cylinders or reload the one that was emptied, especially on horseback, you'd know how difficult it would have been, and the likelihood was that you would be better served by simply "gettin' the heck outta the area"!

About that Whitney Navy pistol? I fired an orginal, in nearly mint (though reblued) condition, using real BP. After about three (3) shots, the cylinder began to bind up!  After a full cylinder, it couldn't be turned by hand! Of the replicas I've shot, the Colt's M1860 and M1851 and a replica Spiller & Burr produced the best reliabiltiy without cleaning.  The Colt's M1860 and a M1851 Navy got about three and a half cylinders before becoming a bit stiff, but still continued to function for another cylinder or so.  The replica Remington New Army (aka M1858) got about eight shots out of twelve (six plus two of the next loading) before fouling to the point of inoperability.! Interestingly, the Spiller & Burr replica, which was a knockoff on the Whitney originally, kept shooting through about four cylinders full without problems. Originally S &B guns were in very short supply. Personally, I prefer the '60 Colt's.

[warbucks16]

Thank you for the info about the Mounted Troops and Revolvers, it pretty well confirms what my opinions where.

But I still have the question of what was the main source of lubrication, is there any army or service manual that spells out the care and lubrication of the revolvers.

I have a .36 Caliber Manhattan Revolver that is still in Great Shootable condition if I wanted to shoot it but won't  that my Great, Great, Great Grandfather carried during the Civil War and with it is a small metal bottle that I was told at one time contained whale oil and that was why it is in such good condition.

Again, thank you for any information.

Warbucks16

[St. George]

Whale Oil = Sperm Oil.

Light Oil = Olive Oil and/or Mineral Oil

Small arms of yesteryear didn't come with a -10 manual, the supervision of cleaning and maintenance fell to the NCO, who monitored his troopers as they cleaned.

Many conscientous soldiers and officers purchased small glass or metal oil containers - though some of those metal containers found with weapons today came about far, far after the weapon's military service, and were made for sewing machines, and were added to the accumulation.

Remember - at that time, they were really serious about 'well-oiled', and very seldom, if ever tore the piece down as we do today - preferring to just add more oil, after they'd cleaned away the fouling with hot water (and hopefully, soap...).

This accounts for the almost 'glued-together' condition some old weapons are found in - the oil hardened along with the dirt.

If the weapon's clean, has a tight lock-up, and the nipples are in good condition - you 'can' shoot it.

Just lube it as you would with any of the commercial lubricants found available to BP shooters, today.

For more on those - see 'The Darksider's' forum.

Vaya,

Scouts out!

[Dead I]

In 1876 the basic load for Custer's cavalrymen was 24 rounds.  I suspect that the basic load did not change from that of the Civil War.  I've seen wood blocks loaded with combustable cartridges, which were very fragile.  I think those blocks held 12 cartridges.  I think their little cartridge box that whey wore on their belt held two blocks or 24 rds. 

I doubt that they would take time to reload during combat.  We know, however; that sometimes they carried an additional loaded cylinder.  This was especially easy to use when reloading Remington pistols.

Hickock carried two navy's which he reloaded daily.  I fresh loads were more trustworthy.  I doubt that he'd ever reload during a fight. I don't think cavalrymen did either.

[Hangtown Frye]

What most folks fail to take into account is that in the 1850's and '60's, when revolvers were first becoming popular, people's minds were still in what you might call "single-shot mode".  In other words, their view of combat was from the standpoint of having a single-shot pistol, so the idea of getting five or so more was pretty awesome.  Recall that in the Walker Creek Fight between the Texas Rangers under Jack Hays and the Comanche's, even after a fair bit of time and quite a lot of shooting, Hays was able to ask his men how many still had loads in their new Paterson Colts, and many did.  They just didn't pop them off like we see in films, or even what we do at the range.  It wasn't part of the mind-set.

During the ACW, IF the Cavalryman was lucky enough to have a revolver, he wasn't about to empty it idly by firing it as fast as he could into a crowd.  Well, maybe some did, but it wasn't the norm.  Even early on in the age of single-shot pistols, the recommended practice was to fire one shot during the charge, switch to the sword, and then save the second pistol for either the melee or better yet the pursuit.  (This is from the recommendations of a well-known Cavalry general in the 16th Century).  With this in mind, again, having a BUNCH more shots didn't automatically result in guys just blowing them off indiscriminately.  Reloading even a SAA from a jittery horse isn't the easiest thing in the word, capping a cap 'n' ball revolver from the hurricane deck of a cavalry mount is a serious PITA!  So as a general rule, you started with six, and that's what you got for the fight.

As St. George points out quite nicely, cavalry battles weren't long, drawn out affairs.  They were short, violent and bloody with pistols, sabres, carbines and horses being used as orders and necessity presented themselves.  By the time you were out of shots, more than likely the fight would be over and you would be miles away from where it began.  After you and your horse settled down a bit, then you could think about reloading.  Until then the advent of decent cartridge revolvers, the sabre still had a serious place in the Cavalryman's arsenal.  For good reason!   

BTW, most ACW-era Cavalry commanders weren't too impressed with revolvers.  They much preferred the sabre for cavalry-vs.-cavalry fights.  Even the Confederates.  There are many good references to Confederate leaders (such as RE Lee's son "Rooney" Lee) ordering that in every Cavalry Regiment, at least two companies be retained armed with the Saber, to be used as Shock Cavalry, while the rest of the regiment was armed with rifles or carbines, to be used primarily as Dragoons/Mounted Infantry.  Revolvers were definitely secondary arms at best.

Cheers!

Gordon

[Bishop Creek]

What most folks fail to take into account is that in the 1850's and '60's, when revolvers were first becoming popular, people's minds were still in what you might call "single-shot mode".  In other words, their view of combat was from the standpoint of having a single-shot pistol, so the idea of getting five or so more was pretty awesome.  Recall that in the Walker Creek Fight between the Texas Rangers under Jack Hays and the Comanche's, even after a fair bit of time and quite a lot of shooting, Hays was able to ask his men how many still had loads in their new Paterson Colts, and many did.  They just didn't pop them off like we see in films, or even what we do at the range.  It wasn't part of the mind-set.

Exactly right. The six-shooter was an amazing invention and the ability to have that many rounds in reserve was the main train of thought back then. Store bought paper cartridge packets generaly only contained six cartridges unlike the 50 brass cartridges normally found today. My great-grandfather was in a Confederate cavalry militia regiment and as gleaned from his sparse diary, the only weapon he mentioned carrying in battle was a shotgun. I'm sure he also caried a saber, and possibly a pistol, but he made no mention of it. However, he was carring a revolver when he was captured on horseback by Northern troops, but that was after he had mustered out in 1863 (from Nat'l Archives records).

My great-grandfather as he appeared in 1861.

[Major 2]

Recently while reading about Custer's Battle againest Stuart at Little Round Top-Gettysburg, a question came to mind that I have been unable to find a good answer to.

Is there any data as too how many rounds a Civil War Cavalryman could fire before his revolver would jam due to build up from BP,
and secondly what did they use for lubrication, whale oil, vegetable oil  or mineral oil.

Any info would be appreciated.

Warbucks16

I know this is about Pistols & rounds... But

as an aside Custer did not face JEB Stuat at the Little Round Top...

They about 4 miles to the east,  beyond Culp's Hill

[Capt Billy]

It's been hard putting together the career of the original Capt. Billy (my great grandfather) because as late as the mid 1960s, the family was rather tight lipped about his military service...but his cavalry unit (= guerrilla band) each carried as many revolvers as they could pack on.
Do the math as to the firepower of an 18 man party, riding through a Union camp at a gallop, firing into people and tents with even 3 revolvers each! Talk about demoralizing...Union troops, surprised and probably sleepy, had no chance to return much fire before the horsemen were FAR from the scene.
The old bird was never captured, was decorated for service to the Confederacy, and lied on EVERY census I could find that he'd answered up until his death in 1937!   

[St. George]

You don't want Census records - you need to find out if he ever drew any sort of Pension.

'Those' records are extant, for the most part - though the former Confederate States were sometimes reluctant to make them available, initially. (Incidentally - there were no 'decorations' for that time frame - on either side - save for the Medal of Honor.)

However, towards the turn of the century, more and more veterans were seeking some form of pension, and more information became available.

This is covered in some depth on the 'back pages' on this forum.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Capt Billy]

Thanks St. George...I HAVE his pension records, and towards the turn of the century the Arkansas State Legislator awarded him a gold handled cane (in appreciation of services to the Confederacy).
I keep looking.