1848 or 1849 Colt Pocket

birddoghunter · March 20, 2011, 10:20:02 PM

I purchased a Colt .31 cal. with a 6 inch barrel and would like to know what model is it and what year was this produced Ser. # 229XXX. I think its an 1849 pocket but it has an almost square trigger guard that looks like an 1848 model. Adress Sam Colt New York City.

Pettifogger · March 20, 2011, 10:55:55 PM

229,000 serial number puts it around 1863, well beyond the 1848 serial number range. (Which ended around 14,000.) Do the numbers match on the gun? As late as the gun is, it almost has to be a replacement trigger guard. Another tip off that the trigger guard is not original is the trigger. It is the longer 1849 trigger. In your photo the trigger is touching or almost touching the bottom of the trigger guard. A baby dragoon trigger is shorter.

birddoghunter · March 21, 2011, 05:32:52 AM

I wouldn't think that this trigger guard had been replaced because it has all matching numbers.

Dale

The Pathfinder · March 21, 2011, 06:34:57 AM

If the numbers all match up and the stampings are the same, then my best guess is "hey look at what I found in the bottom of the parts bin. Let's use it to build one up and drive them mad trying to figure it out in a hundred and fifty years or so".

birddoghunter · March 21, 2011, 07:04:21 AM

Should I call Coltl Archives? Would they be able to give me any information over the phone or will I have to pay a fee?
Dale

St. George · March 21, 2011, 09:47:48 AM

Looks like replacement parts to me, too.

Back in that time frame - Colt used up 'all' of the available parts that may've been on-hand.

Do the serial numbers on the backstrap and triggerguard match?

Colt won't be able to help you over the phone - and they 'will' want a fee for any services.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

birddoghunter · March 21, 2011, 09:56:08 AM

The numbers are the same in all places with all six digits except the wedge. The wedge is the only part marked with just the last three of the correct serial number.

Dale

St. George · March 21, 2011, 10:11:22 AM

Then you have a nice, long-barrelled version of a Model 1849 Pocket Pistol - one of Colt's most popular revolvers.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

birddoghunter · March 22, 2011, 06:19:48 AM

CORRECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After further inspection the numbers on this six inch Colt Pocket are 25812.

Let me describe the events of this purchase. I was out of town in central Illinois and stopped in an Antique Mall last Saturday. I saw a four inch Colt Pocket in a display case serial number 229787. I called the owner of the booth and told him that I wanted to purchase the Colt that he had in his display case. I asked him if he had any other Civil War era weapons for sale. He said he had a few Carbines that he would be able to bring in on Sunday morning.

When I met him at the mall on Sunday morning he pulled out a six inch Colt Pocket from his briefcase serial number 25812 that he said he forgot he had at home. I puchased the six inch Colt insted of the four inch model in the display case. I also purchased an 1868 dated Evans Repeating Rifle from him on Sunday.

I posted this thread Sunday night with the serial number that I had written down in my notes which happened to be the serial number of the four inch model that I didn't purchase. When I opened the safe this morning to check the numbers with a jewelers loop to see if they were doctored or restamped I found my huge mistake.

Early in this thread it was mentioned that the serial numbers only went up to 14,000 for the 1848 model. This six inch Colt is numbered 25812. Does this mean I have an early 1849 Pocket with a D type trigger guard similar to the 1848 model?

The top iof the barrel is marked (ADDRESS SAML COLT over NEW YORK CITY). The L after SAM is a smaller sized capital letter?

Dale

St. George · March 22, 2011, 08:48:15 AM

Your serial number indicates construction as a Model 1849 between 1852 and 1853.

The squareback triggerguard was dropped from the Model 1848 at the same time as the overlap with the Model 1849 production - at about serial number 15500.

Serial numbers for the Model 1849 began at 12000 - in 1850.

Parts could and did overlap during construction - but there's no way to discern just how often this occurred.

"7. Among the innumerable variations of the Model 1849 are the following: varying overall rammer size, lever latches, lever catches, iron backstrap and triggerguard types, rammer lever assembly screw, grips, quality of silver plating on grip straps, hammer spur knurlings, crowned muzzles, British proofmarked specimens, wedge keys with restraining springs, 36 CAL triggerguard stampings, lack of barrel or frame stampings, dealer stampings, and even variations in the cylinder roll engraving. Most variations in the Model 1849 appear in the period 1850-1860."

For more - look at Sutherland and Wilson's book - 'The Book of Colt Firearms'.

There are folks out there who collect 'just' the Model 1849 - because of all the possible variants.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Drydock · March 22, 2011, 09:23:20 AM

For most of the 19th century you could order a Colt with any number of customizations. I believe you have one of these.

St. George · March 22, 2011, 10:18:16 AM

These were hardly 'customizations' as we know them today.

During the era - that would mean engraving or plating beyond what Colt offered.

These were production anomalies that occurred as Colt was producing and using up available parts.

That there were so many variations - as cited in Sutherland and Wilson above - gives ample proof to this fact, and they devoted two chapters to the Model.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

birddoghunter · March 22, 2011, 11:44:22 AM

Sorry about the serial number confusion!

Would you know an estimated value on this Colt Pocket seeing it is an early one with the variation?

Thank you for all of your help!

Dale

St. George · March 22, 2011, 11:53:14 AM

While I'm sure that you'll get several replies on this, an accurate appraisal includes a thorough visual inspection to assess the overall condition, percentage of blue/casehardening present and percentage of varnish on the grips, and go from there.

That's where experience trumps supposition and wishful thinking.

As I said - there are 'numerous' variants - no particular version seems to bring an asking price higher than any others - other than the 3" version.

The Model 1849 was a very popular, long-produced revolver - the valuations seen on 'Gunbroker' are fairly close - though usually on the high side.

A big gun show in your region should have a dealer with a solid reputation, so ask if he'd take a look - most will.

You can go to Barnes & Noble's and check the current 'Blue Book' - but keep in mind that that's subjective as hell - and in years past - flat-out 'wrong', when they'd printed information several years out of date.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Pettifogger · March 22, 2011, 08:30:47 PM

You said you just bought it. That's how much it is currently worth.

birddoghunter · March 22, 2011, 09:28:43 PM

Pettifogger,

Did I overpay or did I get a great deal? What would you have paid?

Dale

Pettifogger · March 22, 2011, 09:42:51 PM

Impossible to tell from the one photo. You need some closeups and shots from different angles. How much cylinder scene does it have? Any original blue? Casehardening, condition of screw heads, etc. Just a swag based on what appears to be a very nice gray gun, $1,200 to $1,500. Also depends if the trigger guard is original or the gun is a parts gun.