1860 Army?

[shooter93]

The 1860 ...and other... revolvers made by the Colt Blackpowder Company were made as 3 generations? Were first and second generation guns made in Belgium and is there any appreciable differences between the generations as far as quality goes? Thanks.
Scott

[Pettifogger]

The 1st Gens are the originals made in the 1800's.  The second gens were made by/for Colt in the 1970's and 80's.  The so-called third Gens are the "Signature" series.  None of these were made in Belgium.  Now, before the nit nickers jump in, there were Brevette Colts made in the 1800's in Belgium under license from Colt.  There was also the Centaur series made in the 1960's and 70's that were made in Belgium.  None of these are "Colts."  If you are looking for a shooter, the 2nd Gen Colts are generally (some are rougher than corn cobs, but that is not the norm) the ones to look for.  Another alternative is to simply buy a current production Uberti (Uberti made many of the parts used in the 2nd Gens) as they are as well built as most of the 2nd Gens and are a lot cheaper.

[Bishop Creek]

I have seen the rumor that the 2nd Gen Colt cap and ball revolvers were made in Belgium on numerous black powder boards over the years. As Pettifogger stated above, they were all made in the U.S. using rough cast Uberti parts and finished and shipped by Colt. According to Dennis Adler, the 3rd Gen, Signature Series, were made under license from Colt by Colt Blackpowder Arms in New York using Uberti parts with the frames made in the U.S.

I suspect the Belgium rumor was started when a few 1860 Army models made in Belgium in the late 1960s and early '70s had authentic Colt markings stamped on them. I actually handled one at a gun show years ago. Colt threatened to sue and that practice stopped immediately

[Montana Slim]

..... they were all made in the U.S. using rough cast Uberti parts and finished and shipped by Colt...

I was told by an associate that parts for 2nd gen Colts were primarily ASM....I can't confirm with him since he passed away a couple years ago....he was well know at Colt.

Regards,
Slim

[St. George]

They were supplied 'in the white' by Uberti and fit and finished at Colt's plant.

That's why the early '2d Generation' percussion revolvers can 'factory letter' to Colt, whereas the later 'Signature Series' won't, since those were built away from the plant by Lou Imperioli.

There's far more on this over at the 'Colt Forum'.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Joe Lansing]

    Relative to repro's with un authorized Colt markings from the 1960's, I have 1 or 2 copper flasks from this period marked "Colt's Patent".

                                                                   J.L.

[Bishop Creek]

    Relative to repro's with un authorized Colt markings from the 1960's, I have 1 or 2 copper flasks from this period marked "Colt's Patent".

                                                                   J.L.

I have a Dixon flask made in the 1970s marked "Colt's Patent." I believe that Dixon originally made flasks for Colt back in the 1850s and 1860s.

[St. George]

At one time, EMF had the accessories left over from that production - all were properly marked.

Might be worth a phonecall.

'Someone' liberated my Colt-marked .36 mould, though - damned Communist...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Major 2]

At one time, EMF had the accessories left over from that production - all were properly marked.

Might be worth a phonecall.

'Someone' liberated my Colt-marked .36 mould, though - damned Communist...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

He must have a set then cause he got mine, with my 3rd Mod. Dragoon
I still miss that 2 Gen.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Regarding the Belgian Centaures: their maker Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liège (FAUL) had a license from Sam Colt from the 1850s to make Colt type C&B pistols. Reference Colt BREVETE. This license was never terminated by either party. That same company was selected by W. B. Edwards and Sigmund Shore of Shore Galleries/Centennial Arms Corp. Inc., Lincolnwood, IL during the late 1950s to make the so called "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" aka Centennial Army aka Belgian Colt 1860 from 1959 to 1973.
Does this old license mean anything & does it make the Centaures Colts? It is my considered opionion that this was more of a marketing gag when it was highlighted in ads in the USA and Europe during the 1960s and 1970s.
Every now and then there are discussions in various forums that FAUL was involved in the making of 2nd gen Colt 1860s. That is wishful thinking but not true. Considering the bloodline and the time of their manufacture - they were made before the what we call today 2nd gen 1860s - you can ague, however, that the Centaure have more gens of the originals from 1860 to 1873. Hence some Centaure aficionados consider them the truer 2nd gen Colt.
We are also aware of a couple of Centaures from the early 1960s in Cavalry, Civilian & RNMA configuration with proper Colt markings from the 1860s. A few that we inspected were scroll engraved. One Cavalry is known with true ivory grip and matching shoulder stock. These colterized Centaures are the work of one Thomas Haas, US gunsmith and Colt restorer. He made them for the collections of both Edwards and Shore. Some of these pieces of art recently surfaced at US auctions.
Regarding Dixon made flasks: FAUL purchased & sold Dixon marked powder flasks to be used together with there Centaure pistols. If you are lucky you will find at an auction or a pawn shop one of the very rare cased Centaure sets with Dixon flask and FAUL marked iron bullet mold for round and conical balls.
My 2 € cents respectfully added.
Long Johns Wolf

[Bishop Creek]

That's intereresting Long Johns Wolf. I wonder if if my Dixon flask was made for one of those Belgium Centaure sets.

[St. George]

Doubtful - based on the style of packaging, which is more reminiscent of that used in the '80's, than in the '60's when those Belgian guns were built.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Long Johns Wolf]

Bishop Creek: Those flasks made for FAUL were stamped
DIXON & SONS
MADE IN ENGLAND
Long Johns Wolf

[Bishop Creek]

Bishop Creek: Those flasks made for FAUL were stamped
DIXON & SONS
MADE IN ENGLAND
Long Johns Wolf

Thanks. Mine isn't one of those flasks then.