Berthier Carbine

[Drydock]

Saw one of these at a VFW show today (9 March) in Jefferson City.  Intact, barrel looked Good+, dirty with well defined rifling, might be better with a good cleaning.  $200.  Good price?

[pony express]

That's not a bad price, is it 3 shot or 5? Five shot has extended metal magazine, 3 shot ends flush with the wood, with no cover for the opening. 5 shot has hinged cover over the opening. Is the wood intact, and front band/stacking peg? Replacements for those are really hard to find unless you order from France.

[Niederlander]

Does it show a big "ding" where it was dropped once?  Perhaps wear around the muzzle where the white rag was tied on?!  Yes, I had to go there!

[Stu Kettle]

  someone had to.

[Delmonico]

Ugley guns and ugly cars.

[Drydock]

Ah yes, I was thinking of you Pony, it has none of the 1916 modifications that I can see, still with the 3 round magazine and open bottem, has all wood including hand guard, and has the stacking peg.  If YOU want it, I"ll go grab it tomorrow if its still there.

[pony express]

Did you work the action? sometimes things like the bolt head or extractor are missing. But I can swap bolts with my M-16 if needed. If it has a handguard, I THINK that's one of the 1916 mods, but these have been rebuilt and re-rebuilt lots of times. Actually, during WW1 many of them did get dropped, in places like Verdun, because the one carrying it got blown to bits in artillery barrages. Then afterward, details searched the battlefield for whatever weapons(or parts of weapons) they could find and repair.

Anyway, I can swing $200, so if it's still there, grab it and I'll see you next week at the first shoot.

Have to come up with a different outfit to go with a carbine, though. Foreign Legion were all infantry and carried Lebels. I have seen pictures of native mounted troops in Algeria, but not sure what the date of the picture was. It might have been closer to WW1, since typically native troops got modern weapons well after everyone else. So they were probably carrying Gras carbines up to 1900 or later.

[Drydock]

Ah yes, I did work the action, the bolt appeared complete to me.  I'll run back up there tomorrow, hope its still there!  Doing some research, I believe this was a  MOUSQUETON D'ARTILLERIE  Mle 1892, with some updates circa 1927.

[pony express]

Does it have the "N" chamber marking? If not it was probably out of French service before about 1932. The French sent a lot of weopons to Poland between the wars, and a few other countries too. Mot sure if they sent Berthiers or not, maybe only Lebels.

[Drydock]

Do not know, did'nt look that close at the markings I'm afraid.

[Drydock]

OK Pony, you now own an Mle 1892 Artillery Musketoon.  It does have the "N" stamp on the barrel and reciever, the barrel cleaned up very nice indeed, shiney, strong rifling, a few pits here and there.  It does have a small handguard forward of the sight.  The only thing missing I can see is the slide on the sight ladder, and perhaps a washer under the takedown screw.  Bolt and reciver numbers match, and it comes with what I believe is the correct French leather sling.  There is a "CC" mark on the barrel shank,  also MA  S  1895.  Serial Number 84XXX. Not much blue left, some pitting on the exposed barrel exterior and bolt, wish I had some ammo, I'd go shoot it this afternoon!

My son likes it, thinks that magazine swell is perfect for an offhand hold. Light handy little thing.  Maybe your Legionairre got hisself a battlefield pickup?

[pony express]

I'll be eagerly awaiting the shoot next week! Planning on shooting the Krag, but still have some 8X50 loaded up. Don't have any 3 round clips, but 5 will work, just load 3 and they stick out the bottom a bit. They don't make a good single shot, a broken extractor would be difficult to replace

[Grenadier]

An excellent $200 spent!

[Pony Racer]

At 200.00 a great find indeed.

The 8mm lebel in the berthier carbines is a healthy pop can of ammo. I think hotter than 30-30 but less than 308.

The thing to keep an eye open for now are the 3 round stripper clips - they are hard to find but pop up from time to time.

I have been told that the carbines were standard issue for horse and bicycle troops as well as artillery troops.

I love my little berthier they are light and nice handling rifles.

PR

[pony express]

Pony Racer, there's a guy in Austrailia making the 3 rd clips. You can find where to get them in the French rifle section on Gunboards. I haven't got any yet, I'll order some soon. Meanwhile I can use the 5 round ones I have, just load 3 in them. Now I just have to come up with some time to drive up and get it from Drydock, was going to pick it up at our first shoot of the year last weekend, but excessive rain and cold cancelled the shoot.

[Drydock]

Its an odd thing to hold this, and know this was very likely at Verdun, perhaps some pieces of it are still there.  My sons unrefurbed 1942 Mosin has much the same feel.