Vinegaroon time

[marine-mp]

Well, the vinegaroon witches brew is about done, (Mama didn't appreciate that one!!!!).  I've tested it out on some scraps and this stuff is "fantastic".  Now, can some of you who have used this direct me on the  approximate time to let the leather "rest" in the batch for how long...and how long should I keep it in the baking soda mix to de-activate.  Thanks for all the helpful advice on this forum.  Semper-fi    Mike 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi Marine MP,

There are so many recipes for Vinagaroon ... which one did you use?

[marine-mp]

WWE,
   I got the distilled white vinegar and added about 2/3's cup of metal turnings from my machine shop.  After 4 days the concoction is black, but still have metal shavings in the bottom.  I don't believe they will disappear any time soon.  But they do turn the leather black.  I guess its done "cooking".  What do you think???   Anyways, if anyone needs metal shaving, I have plenty.  Make 'em every day.  Let me know and I'll ship them to anyone.  Semper-fi     Mike

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

     
   marine-mp, Welcome to the leather Shop. I copied part of Chuck Burrows recipe for Vinegaroon, you can fine this and more information in our FAQ/HOW TO thread, it's always at the top of the board. you'll love this Vinegaroon, it is the best black I've ever used, and is pretty much all I use these days, follow these instructions for the best results, you'll fine that the cider vinegar works the best.

               tEN wOLVES

Howdy Here's some instructions for some of the old time dyes  I'm working with these days:
1) Black: VINEGAR BLACK (aka Vinegaroon - these are original old formulas)
For giving color to the grain of leather there is no blacking that will at all compare with the well known vinegar black. This may be made in various ways. The simplest, and, without doubt, the best, is to procure shavings from an iron turner and cover them with pure cider vinegar; heat up and set aside for a week or two, then heat again and set in a cool place for two weeks; pour off the vinegar, allow it to stand for a few days, and draw off and cork up in bottles. This will keep for a long time, and, while producing a deep black on leather, will not stain the hands.
Another method is to cover iron scraps with sour beer, and allow them to stand for a month or more; then strain off the beer and bottle as before.
A third method is to boil sulphate of iron in vinegar; mix some brewer's yeast with beer and allow it to stand for twenty four hours, then skim off the yeast and add the vinegar.

Instead of iron shavings you can use steel wool. To use the steel wool burn off the oil first - I dip it in acetone and use a propane/blow torch and light it off in an old pan with a lid, just in case you need to put the flame out. Take all precautions and it will work fine. The only problem with steel wool is it often has copper and other metals in the "mix" which can sometimes add a greenish tint.

After the "dye" (actually it's a reagent) dries I then neutralize with a slurry of baking soda and room temp water, about a 1/2 cup baking soda to a quart of water. Then I let the leather dry until just damp and apply a light coat or two of oil (I generally use olive oil, Lexol, Conditioner, or Lexol non-greasy Neats Foot). When the "dye" first dries it may look bluish or grayish at first and sometimes a second coat is needed, but normally the neutralizing and oil will turn it black.

[Dalton Masterson]

Question for you 10W.
Waay back when I made my little batch of vinegaroon, I used some steel wool, and cider vinegar. I just let it sit for a few weeks, agitating it every once in awhile. Then I poured it into a shallow pan with my holster and let it soak for a bit. I got a nice black color, but still have the vinegar smell a little bit after a couple years and using a baking soda neutralizer.

NOW, when I read the instructions, I am rethinking what I did. I used the vinegar portion of the mix. Is that correct? Or is it the slurry in the bottom I should be using?

BTW, I just started up another batch tonite, and probably better get some instruction...
DM

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Question for you 10W.
Waay back when I made my little batch of vinegaroon, I used some steel wool, and cider vinegar. I just let it sit for a few weeks, agitating it every once in awhile. Then I poured it into a shallow pan with my holster and let it soak for a bit. I got a nice black color, but still have the vinegar smell a little bit after a couple years and using a baking soda neutralizer.

NOW, when I read the instructions, I am rethinking what I did. I used the vinegar portion of the mix. Is that correct? Or is it the slurry in the bottom I should be using?

BTW, I just started up another batch tonite, and probably better get some instruction...
DM

   Dalton, the fist batch I made back in 06, I had the same thing, I could smell the vinegar for a few months, I also used the steel wool and burned off any oil that might have been in it, I find it really does take about two weeks to get the best results, that's something you just can't rush, and shaking it a little every day really helps, what I've been doing lately is adding to my vinegaroon It was getting weak, so I just added more iron shavings, and stayed away from the steel wool, I also added more cider vinegar, and just left it in there, my batch is now going on five years old and one adding too about a year ago, for some reason the vinegar smell isn't an issue anymore, I leave my 90% finished holster etc. in the vinegaroon until I feel it is totally saturated and black, I take it out, I then rinse with fresh water, then I submerge my leather in a slurry of 1/2 cup baking soda to a quart of water, I make as much of this as I need to cover my piece and then work the water all around the leather until the bubbles stop, then I take it out and rinse with fresh water again, you want to get all the baking soda off your leather, or it can burn the leather when it dries, I find doing it this way the smell goes away much faster and isn't unpleasant. I get a terrific black using this method and by keeping it in kitty litter jugs it stays seal and in good condition.

  tEN wOLVES

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Welcome, MP. Vinegaroon is great stuff. In a quart of vinegar, one of those large steel wool pads (0000) will completely dissolve. I haven't tried shavings and can't say whether they will disappear. Perhaps one of the pards here who have tried it can comment about that. I'd think that you could leave the shavings in or pour off the vinegar since it's already working well.

Dalton, I use white vinegar and it never leaves a smell in the leather after being neutralized with baking soda. I never tried using the slurry in the bottom to dye with.

[marine-mp]

Thanks for the replys and the salutations.  Just sent some shavings to WaddWatsonEllis.  If anyone else wants some, put rounds downrange and I'll get some to ya!!!!!!  I've been making concealed carry holsters for a while now, but am impotent when it comes to posting pictures!!!!  Never learned how!!!!  Maybe someday.       Anyways, Thanks for all.  Semper-fi              Mike

[ChuckBurrows]

1) If you still have a heavy vinegar smell even after the metal has dissolved it means there is still residual acid in the mix - drain off the lees (the junk in the bottom) and then add some more iron , be sure and also stir it so the metal is exposed to the air as much as possible - it's the acidic fumes that really dissolve the iron. Once it won;t take more iron, drain off any lees and then let the jar air for a day or so until all or at least most all of the odor is gone.
2) Once your piece is dyed hang to dry in front of a fan on low for a day or two - acetic acid is highly volatile and fumes off quite fast UNLESS you seal over it - get rid of the odor first.........