DA s&w problem

Started by jefff, November 19, 2010, 05:20:24 PM

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jefff

1917 smith won't stay cocked single action.replaced main spring trigger return spring and pin on hand.works ok double action.this one got me stumped.if pressure is applied to the back of trigger it locks up just fine single action,so replaceing the trigger return should have fixed it ,but nooo.any body got any ideas?

St. George

Check for a burr at that location - or deepen and true up the hammer's notch.

You may need to replace the hammer - Numrich (Gunpartsco) used to have them in profusion.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!
"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Professor Marvel

On a Smith&Wesson one can often observe the workings of the action with the sideplate removed. If one were to hold a piece of plexi over the works that will alleviate concerns of everything going sproing all over the room. Use a good magnifying glass and strong light, it may reveal "why " the trigger refuses to engage the hammer notch.

yhs
prof marv
Your Humble Servant

praeceptor miraculum

~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of


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Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
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Shotgun Franklin

The Professor is correct. Remove the side plale, DO NOT PRY IT OFF. Hold the gun flat looking down at the action and try the single action. (If the action is good and fitted you can actually hold the gun up and watch it work).The problem should be easily seen. There is a chance that the problem is the trigger. IF, IF a part pops out of place it is easily put back in place. The S&W is, IMO, the easiest handgungun it the world to work on followed closely by the 1911. If you can with the NRA they can supply you with the disassembly instructions and a list of parts.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

Delmonico

Quote from: Shotgun Franklin on November 20, 2010, 09:38:14 AM
If you can with the NRA they can supply you with the disassembly instructions and a list of parts.

Not sure, because the work firewall blocks this site, but you should be able to find one here:

http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm

Might have to see if the IT guy can fix it.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

St. George

If 'you' decide to remove the sideplate - use a fitted screwdriver to remove the screws.

Then - use a leather or plastic mallet and tap around the edges of the frame, until the sideplate pops out.

Do not attempt to pry it free or force it - the tapping will make it pop out - so have a place that'll catch it.

All of the NRA/Gun Digest Guides on firearms disassembly should feature the N-Frame - so follow the instructions.

I've worked on countless S&Ws - nothing has ever released itself to fly out of the frame and go exploring on its own.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

jefff

thanks,just didn't want to overlook something simple.it may be in the rebounding slide as it contacts the bottom of the hammer to prevent a slip fire,will ck and let you know

Professor Marvel

Del -  If your firewall is blocking a site, try using an anonymizer such as anonymouse.org
thanks for steve's page it does have an incredible number of factory manuals and diagrams!

St George, my thanks for the assurance of lack of Sproing in the S&W design. Perhaps the Single Action desing is easier, but ...

I have become somewhat paranoid lately as I work on springy mechanisms and chase parts all about.... Even if I spot where the bits have flown it becomes a race to see who gets to it first, the cats or me...

I think that perhaps as I enter my Klutzy Twitchy Bifocular years that I should whip up a sort of plexi glove box in which to work...
then I can justify making it by having  it do double duty when working on Tritium sights and opening mail that might contain suspicious powder (like cake mix) ...

Jeff - If all else fails, by all means tear it completely down and buy the Kunhausen book - it is an excellent educational experience !

yhs
prof (nearsighted and sproingy) marvel
Your Humble Servant

praeceptor miraculum

~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of


Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic


Delmonico

Thanks Professer, I guess to to be real I most likely won't be tearing a gun apart on my desk at work, although it could happen I guess.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Shotgun Franklin

There's only one spring to watch out for. Once the side plate is off, behind the trigger(to the left) and below the hammer is a rectangular piece with a spring inside. You might have to take this out to get to the 'broken' piece. You can put a screwdriver into the left end, cover it with a rag then pry up this block. Once you've seen how it fits together it is easy to put in and take out.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

jefff

thanks again,but the problem still exists even with that spring replaced.the wear around the trigger and hammer does not seem excessive but i think i may be down to replceing those parts .what i can't understand is why a small amount of pressure on the back of the trigger at full cock solves the problem.replacing the trigger return spring  should have fixed that.any other ideas?

St. George

Try a complete disassembly and a 'very' thorough cleaning, if you haven't already done so.

Get out the round toothpicks and the Q-Tips and a 'good' lube, like 'Break-Free', and get all of the accumulated detritus out of the action and from all parts.

Over time, some oils can turn into a shellac, so you'll want that gone.

Then, re-lube, and reassemble.

Without actually seeing and handling the weapon, it's hard to offer much else by way of advice.

Again, Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out

"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Shotgun Franklin

The catch on the trigger may be out of spec not engaging the hammer. That would explain why pushing forward on the trigger engages the SA. You might try a different trigger first, triggers are cheaper than hammers.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

jefff

there was aslight wear mark on the bottom of the trigger where it made contact with the frame so i removed aslight amount of metal and wala!it still don't work.will let you know what the cure is when it is found.now where did i put that sledge hammer?jeff

Driftwood Johnson

Howdy

May I suggest you get this book?

http://www.gunbooks.com/sw.html

Absolutely the best book in print about working on Smith & Wesson Hand Ejectors. If you do any work at all on Smiths, it is well worth the price. It will tell you exactly what to look for in all situations needing diagnosis. May I suggest you buy the book before attempting to remove any more metal?

You can buy it from Midway, but I always like to buy books directly from the author if possible and cut out the middleman.
That's bad business! How long do you think I'd stay in operation if it cost me money every time I pulled a job? If he'd pay me that much to stop robbing him, I'd stop robbing him.

Ya probably inherited every penny ya got!

Shotgun Franklin

It might be possible that some years back when Lawyers were filing all kinda cases against Officers and Departments that your gun was altered to eliminate the SA. An Officer would shoot a bad guy and be sued because the Officer did not intend to shoot the bad guy, it was an accidental discharge (or so the highly paid expert would testify). The idea being that shooting a bad guy on purpose is ok but shooting one by accident was grounds for a suit. I have handled several such revolvers but they were much newer models than a 1917. Who knows?
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

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