Syracuse Arms Double Twelve

[Crow Choker]

Greetings All---- Looking for any input on a shotgun given to me approx 35 yrs ago that has been in mothballs. Being that it has 'damascus' barrels, ie black powder only, I'm posting it here. What I have is a double 12, hammerless, with a top tang safety. On the bottom of the receiver  it says 'The Hollenbeck'. Under that it has what I can best make out 'Matley'. Under this, 'The Syracuse Arms Co'. As stated, it has 'damacus' barrels, but someone once upon a time sawed them off to a little over 20", probably shot some smokeless rds in them and bulged the barrels. Metal and wood are in great shape, barrel interiors are clean, although the left barrel willnot fire when ya pull the trigger. Missin the buttplate too. Any real collector value is destroyed because of the 'sawed off' condition, but thinking of turning it into a CAS shotgun if after inspection of barrel safety is done and I can get both barrels to fire-maybe if it needs parts, none will be available. I checked online and found a little info on the Syracuse Arms Co, but wondering if anyone has more. Might be a project to 'mothball'. Numrich Arms does list some parts, but don't know if any are what may be needed. The serial number is in the 4000 range and there is a number '2' stamped next to the 'patent' applied info. Info on-line indicated they were made in late 1800's/early 1900's. Any input would be appreciated.

[Cookie]

Given the poor condition you describe, and the relatively low cost of used doubles, I'd say it wasn't worth the time or money (if it's even possible) to get it back into workable condition. 

[Wolfgang]

Given the poor condition you describe, and the relatively low cost of used doubles, I'd say it wasn't worth the time or money (if it's even possible) to get it back into workable condition. 

My thoughts as well. 

[JimBob]

Given that the barrels are damascus and they are bulged puts this one in the unsafe to shoot category.The next shot fired could blow the barrels even with BP loads.Replacement hands and body parts are very difficult to come by.

[Crow Choker]

Yes, agree with replies, but with certain reservations. First, having the barrels sawed, a missing buttplate, and left barrel not firing doesn't put this ol' girl in the poor condition category. Thar's nary a spect of rust on it, wood and metal condition are above average for it's age. Don't know why the left barrel won't fire, maybe just needs a good cleaning, if damaged/broke, if repairable and a part is available, good enough, if not, it'll still be nice to look at. I'd rather have this ol' girl shootable than have one of the current crop of popular double's available, not impressed with their quality. Rather spend the greenbacks reviving this double than spend some on one that doesn't 'hold a candle' to the Syracuse as far as overall quality. I've seen many ol' guns and guitars brought back to life that are 'miles above' anything new availbale.  As far as bulged barrels, never said they were. I speculated that maybe that is why it was sawed off. What is left of the barrels, all 20 1/4" of em, are in excellant condition. The bottom rib needs a few inches resoldered and the ends 'prettied up' a little. If I can get it shootable, before firing, I plan on taking it to a local "ol' time gunsmith" than can say shotgun in '20 different languages' and have him check it out. Won't shoot it if it is even marginal. Oh ya, forgot to mention in original post, I received the double from a former police chief back in the days when I was fighting crime, coruption, and jay walking. In fact received another, a sawed off single twelve. They were taken from a drug dealer who was arrested on drug and other weapon charges(the ones I received werenot stolen, unwanted return). Maybe this joker or someone in his crowd sawed them off for whatever crime infested mind reason they came up with. Final thoughts, if repairable and shootable, fine-if not, it was a freebe and no investment or sleep lost. Have a good one and 'May the bullet bullet leavin' yer barrel hit it's mark before the smoke leavin' it to, blurs yer vision!" 

[JimBob]

Sorry,the way I read your post I took it to mean the existing barrels were bulged.If the gun is in otherwise shootable condition the best route to take on a restoration may be to look for a junker of the same make to salvage for parts.Another parts source when you determine what you need you might check is http://www.jackfirst.com For a period looking buttplate check out the offerings of http://www.vintagegungrips.com They have some under the misc. shotgun buttplates that are repros of period checkered and gamescene buttplates.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings Crow Choker -

The Hollenbeck seems to be a well-made shotgun. If the barrels look good inside and out under good magnification, and if they pass "the ring test" I myself would be willing to shoot them with BP loads.

Some little data I have found:

from http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=9325

Syracuse Arms Company was founded by Frank Hollenbeck after he left Baker Gun & Forging Company in Batavia, New York, and returned to Syracuse in 1893. Between 1893 and 95 Frank had nine patents assigned to Syracuse Arms Co. The early guns are very tricky to take down, but Frank's patent number 523,813 for a "Movable Cocking Shoulder for Breakdown Guns" made this easier. After a couple of years Frank left to make bicycle seats but the company continued to operate until possibly as late as 1908. The earlier guns are marked "The Hollenbeck" and after Frank left in August 1895 they are often marked "The Syracuse." Syracuse Arms Company guns were made in two series -- the stock guns, which had grades designated by numbers 00, 0, 1, 2, and 3; and the special order guns which had grades designated by letters, A, A-1, B, C, and D. List prices in the 1902 catalogue ranged from $30 for the 00-Grade with Triplet Steel barrels to $475 for the D-grade with either Whitworth Fluid or Damascus barrels. Operating in the Syracuse area the company had access to some of this country's finest engravers in the Glahn family. I briefly owned a straight-gripped B-grade that had some of the best engraving (not in quantity but in execution) I've ever seen on an American gun.
The ejectors for Syracuse Arms Co. were designed by George A. Horne and featured a cut-off to set them to just extract if wanted. Two excellent articles on Frank Hollenbeck were published in The Gun Report -- "The Syracuse Arms Company and Frank Hollenbeck" by the late A.C. Atterbury in the July 1988 issue, and "New Notes of Frank A. Hollenbeck" by H.J. Swinney in the September 1991 issue. I believe they sell back issues -- phone (309) 582-5311.

---
some interesting threads -

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Syracuse-Arms-Damascus-SxS-12-ga-.cfm?gun_id=100149004

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=202905&PHPSESSID=b030ff3d0bb0051d1f90635bbe7cda48


yhs
prof marvel

[Tascosa Joe]

There have been several articles on the Hollenbeck in the Double Gun Journal in the last year or so.  Fixing a loose rib properly is a very expensive undertaking.  The old Syracuse was a fairly high end gun in its day and would be a neat one to play with.   Best of luck in your restoration.

[Crow Choker]

Thnak you to all for the information, logged on to web sites provided and gained usefull info. Checked Numrich Arms for parts available, if any needed, but they don't have any schematic available and cannot as of yet find any on-line. Would be helpfull in determing what is needed vs what they have available. If anyone knows of any please advise. I did dismantle receiver from stock and horror or horrors found that the right barrel 'v' spring had been previously welded(poorly), but it did function. The left barrel that would not fire would not 'set' even when manuelly set, might be broken too. If any are not available, well . But this ol girl is cryin to be restored so, "I'll endevour to persevere!" Did find a web-site geared to double shotguns, but as yet haven't spent alot of time on it or posted any 'cry for help'.