1876 Winchester talk

[Buck Stinson]

I can't beleive no one has posted anything on this forum since the 1st.  C'mone guys, lets hear some stories or ask some questions.  personally, I'd love to see more photos of original guns or accoutraments.  Now's your chance.

[larryo_1]

Buck:
Maybe the folks are all busy doing whatever.  As far as meself is concerned, I did get 50 rounds of 45-75 Jamison brass awhile back and got it all fire-formed and ready to go but here in NW Montana, am working on building a damn Ark instead of shooting.  At least my winter wheat and spring wheat are enjoying all this rain!

[evodude]

Sorry! I had to lay down my arms and pick up the fishing rod- the trout were calling........... Boy could I post some fishing stories! I read some post on the high pressures these new '76's can take, they took the toggle link assembly out of one side and stuck 4 bullets in the bore and shot it with no detrimental effect! Has anybody experienced any horror stories damaging one of the newer models with too hot a load? I know shooting non-jacketed bullets, you dont want to get them going too fast because the lead wont hold up, perhaps thats why most keep pressures and velocities in the BP range listed. My most accurate load in the .50-95 fills the case 3/4's with AA5744, and that 350 grn Lyman is doing around 1550, I could take it higher, but I would be worried about the lead, I dont gas check the bullets, wish I could get some jacketed bullets in the proper diameter to experiment with!

[shrapnel]

High pressure has always been the "weak link" when referring to the 1876. I had the copy of an original test done in the late 1800's, to test the strength of the 1876 action. I don't know where I put it, but it wasn't very scientific as far as pressure gauges and modern testing equipment, but they did put the strength of the action to test.

It was about the same methods as mentioned in the previous post, with nothing more than barrel obstruction, but it definitely was a strength test on the 1876 action. The final analysis was that the action would take more pressure than the reputation it has earned.

I for one can attest to the strength of original actions as I blew up an original 1876 in 45-60. I was loading my ammunition on a Dillon 550 press and had a glitch with the primer feed on the press and while I was messing with it, I ran the ram up an additional time and double charged the case with 5744 smokeless powder.

When I shot the round, not knowing it had been double charged, The gun literally blew up. The barrel was blown off the receiver and the part that was still attached to the receiver was split, causing the receiver to be bulged at the threads. Another round detonated in the magazine tube and blew the forearm into pieces, opening up the magazine tube like a banana. Thankfully, I was shooting in a long range match and was supporting the rifle with my left hand under the action.

Mike Venturino looked at the gun in pieces and we analyzed what happened to put all the pieces of the cause of the blow up together to better understand what went wrong. This gun has been the item of discussion in several magazine articles illustrating what care in needed  in reloading and shooting these old guns. Shrapnel is what he has referred to me ever since, the name has stuck for some reason. After all of that...the action held, making me wonder where the reputation comes from about 1876 actions being weak...

[Buck Stinson]

larryo_1
I know what you mean about building an ark.  It has rained steady here in the Bitterroot for weeks.  Yesterday and today were pretty nice, but it's sprinkling here again right now. 

evodude,
I don't know where you live, but with the water so high around here, we can only dream of trying to fly fish any of our rivers or streams.  It has been too wet to do any shooting or fishing. 

[larryo_1]

Buck:
Yep!  My Ark is coming along right nicely as it is raining again here in the Flathead.  I dumped 0.6" out of my rain guage yesterday morning to make room for more.  AT least my winter wheat and spring wheat crops like it!  AND so does the damn  lawn grass!!

[Cimarron]

Some of the neighbors have already started cutting wheat around here.  It rained here today.  I'm hopeing to get into the field by the week end.  I've got a small patch of Turkey Red we bind and thresh out using a steam engine and threshing machine. 

[larryo_1]

We top-dressed our spring wheat this afternoon.  WX looks good for tomorrow but  rain the rest of the week again!

[evodude]

Hey Buck! I live up at the 8,000 foot level in Colorado. Our streams are full, but so are the high country resevoirs- with big hungry trout! Its been down right hot the past few weeks, so get ready- more water on the way!
Hey Shrapnel! Amazing story, thank GOD your hand wasnt under that wooden fore end- I think you may have got a splinter! That mag tube looks like a piece of garden hose. Sorry about your gun.

[Grapeshot]

I can't beleive no one has posted anything on this forum since the 1st.  C'mone guys, lets hear some stories or ask some questions.  personally, I'd love to see more photos of original guns or accoutraments.  Now's your chance.

OK.  I have a question.  Has any of you 1876 owners fitted your rifle with a tang sight and globe front sight?  I had a Marbles tang sight installed with a Lyman Glabe sight.  With this combination the rifle shot about 18 inches Low at the tang sight's highest setting.  I then installed a Pedersoli tang sight made for their Sharps and Rolling Block Rifles.  Shoots better.  I have plenty of hight on the elevator and can adjust for longer ranges if needed.

[kurt250]

i put a tang sight on my 1876. i went to axtill rifle company. carman set me up with a correct long range  winchester rear tang sight and a correct winchester glob front sight with inserts. she makes them. there the best made as far as i'm concerned. call her and she will set you up. tell here kurt sent you. gotsguns

[Buck Stinson]

Kurt is right.   When Tom Axtell at The Riflesmith started reproducing original vintage sights for Sharps and Winchesters, they were an instant hit.  Now, 25 years later, Carmen still makes as good a site as can be found.  These sights are copies of original sights offered by the Winchester and Sharps rifle companies back in the 1870 and 1880 period.  I have quite a number of original mid range, long range hunter and vernier tangs sights for my 1873 and 1876 Winchesters as well as globe front sights for these guns.  The Riflesmith sights are as close as you can get to the real thing and they work flaulessly at a fraction of the price of an original.  You might also check out Montana Vintage Arms.  They make great sights for these old guns. 

[rustyrelx]

Buck: got a question. I picked up a barreled receiver this morning in 45-60, has a pretty good bore left in it,  full 28", with about 20% blue left. My question is: The lower tang is marked with the job number like on a special ordered gun and in front of that is  EX. What can you tell me about EX?    Thanks  Don

[Buck Stinson]

Special order guns did not have any special numbering system.  The lower tangs could be marked CC for case color or with x's to denote the amount of fancy grain in the wood.   The more x's, the fancier the wood.  One x being the least amount of figure and four x's being the fanciest.  The number marking was an assembly number.  The buttstock and buttplate were also marked with this same number.  There could also be random markings like your EX which might stand for extra finish on plain wood.  Sometimes an assembly number will be x-ed out and another number stamped close by.  This means the gun was returned to the factory for rework or repair.   Hope this will help.  If you have a serial number, you can find out exactly what that gun was when it left the factory.  !876 records are very complete.

[rustyrelx]

I was thinking it might be "extra finish", but not sure. Serial # is 16481. Don rustyrelx

[mark anderson]

I have noticed some earlier rifles have an index mark on the barrel for the rear sight. Any special significance or was it just a habit of one of the fellows in the factory who installed them?